Your Favorite Public Place, Is It Losing Its Appeal?

[colocop004]

My favorite haunt is the Sunset bar.  We can sit there for hours having a great time!  We are constantly ordering and our group changes throughout the day.  We usually sail with between 10 to 16 people and we all come and go throughout the day.  It is our favorite spot where we can usually find at least one of our cruise buddies there! If someone leaves to go on an adventure somewhere else on the ship, then we always make sure to share any open chairs with anyone who would like one.  

 

We are going on the Edge in December and I fear that with the smaller venue we will have to find a new location to call our own!

[hulamoon]

Al Bacio is our favorite space and more and more we get items to go because of lack of seating. I love it when the service is good and tables are clean. 

 

We we only use solarium when there is space, not always and the pool is so small on Edge, or appears to be we may use it less. 

 

mike981 thanks for introducing me to the term CHOGs.

[Jane2357]

The worst that I have seen was in the  buffet on embarkation day.  So many people with food trays and no place to sit, packed to the max and there were the card players with several tables in a group.  None were eating but there were a few half full glasses,  they were unconcerned about the lack of table space for those wanting to eat.  Me, if I'm in a restaurant and there are people waiting for a table, when I'm finished eating - I move along.  We need more common courtesy not I got here first so I own it.

[Oville]

2 hours ago, colocop004 said:

My favorite haunt is the Sunset bar.  We can sit there for hours having a great time!  We are constantly ordering and our group changes throughout the day.  We usually sail with between 10 to 16 people and we all come and go throughout the day.  It is our favorite spot where we can usually find at least one of our cruise buddies there! If someone leaves to go on an adventure somewhere else on the ship, then we always make sure to share any open chairs with anyone who would like one.  

 

We are going on the Edge in December and I fear that with the smaller venue we will have to find a new location to call our own!

As the ships are Revolutionized there is very little shade at the Sunset Bar.  Also, that applies to the Edge.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Oville

[Mike981]

58 minutes ago, hulamoon said:

mike981 thanks for introducing me to the term CHOGs.
 

Thank you very much and much kind. I wish I could claim ownership. And I truly wish I knew I who started it, brilliant, but it sure works.🙂

[Denny01]

3 hours ago, Fouremco said:

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. You view Café Al Bacio as a public area with informal seating, while I view it as a coffee shop with seating provided for its customers. 

And understand your view, but if El Bacio is a coffee shop for ‘customers’ why do they have entertainment that goes for extended times and a number of times during the day? It isn’t a coffee shop, its another common area for gathering, just as the Sky Lounge up forward with a bar/lounge area and with lots of seating is a bar area but a place many of us go to relax, socialize, play games, etc. Your logic would make it a bar where if we don’t have a drink in front of us, we should vacate, and I have a feeling you don’t see that common space as a ‘bar only’. Larger but no different. 

 

I’ll sit with my friends and have a snack and some coffee and so on, socialize and play cards some while others sit and read (or nap!) and others step in for a drink and leave. Life with varying opinions and options. I’m afraid I don’t look around to see if all the tables are full and say we should all get up and find some other place so someone else can sit there, order a coffee, socialize, play games, listen to the duet or guitar player and so on. 

 

But to be perfectly frank, there are so many interesting areas on all the Celebrity class ships, we don’t spend extended times in any of the common areas, including El Bacio, I just disagree with your characterization of it being a coffee shop for customers only. 

 

Den

[Icon901]

To those who support extended lounging, I have a simple question with a yes or no answer: 

 

Do you think there are potential customers that decide not to make purchases at El Bacio due to seating being full. 
 

I have a  feeling I know what the response to this will be but I’m going to give folks the benefit of the doubt for a moment.... 

[Germancruiser]

Well,  that is not a yes or no question- some may pass through without purchasing something " to go"- some come back later! So yes- maybe- and no maybe not!

On my last TA on board Silhouette in April this year I always found available space in Al Bacio- no problem there- not always my favorite seat by the window- but there were always seats available. When a table for four was taken by just one person- i politly  asked if i may take a seat- not once was i turned down. Same when I sat there alone- i met so many interessting and nice people who joined me- or visa verse!

I sit there for at least one or maybe two hours- have tea- have a hot chocolate whatsoever- if one beverage is gone i order the next- so yes they make revenue with my drinks there- and therefore I sit there as long as want and ORDER something! LOL!

Edited October 10, 2019 by Germancruiser

[Hlitner]

We understand the frustration of the OP as we have also been shut out  of venues because of folks just killing time and taking up the space.  But, that is life...whether it be on a ship or in many other places that have limited space.  Walk in just about any neighborhood-type bar and you will find a few folks who simply hang-out and perhaps nurse a beer for hours.  On cruise ships you will find it at a coffee bar, in the Lido (especially on sea days), at popular bars during key hours, and even in deck chairs.  DW and I tend to spend a lot of time in deck chairs on any cruise.  It is our normal daytime hangout and we will sometimes grab some loungers by 9am and not leave those seats until around 4.  No, we do not "save the seats" like some folks but are actually in those loungers except to run to the "facilities" grab some lunch (usually to bring back to our loungers) or to go the bar for a drink.  One day a lady stopped to chat on a sea day when there were few to no chairs and remarked that we should give-up our loungers so "she could have a chance."  The point here is that the OP's frustration can be applied to many different venues and that is just the way it is.  The next time you have a sea day, try walking through the Lido buffet area around 11am.  You will see folks sitting at tables playing cards, knitting, reading, etc. and doing everything but eating or drinking.  That is part of the reason why its hard to find a seat in many Lidos at lunch time.  

 

Perhaps the OP would like to put parking meters on all the chairs and loungers :).  But that is just not how things work.  We have often been frustrated when wanting to find seats at the Martini Bar.  In that case we either stand and chat with others, or simply move-on to a different venue where there are seats.  But it would never occur to us to be annoyed with those who happened to get their seats before we arrived.

 

Hank

 

 

[Shadow9612]

7 hours ago, Denny01 said:

Let’s clarify a few points. Sitting at El Bacio having a coffee, playing cards or reading isn’t the same as the pool chair hogs. The pool hogs put their items on lounges and go off to eat or shop or whatever, taking the lounge chairs out of service when not being used. Sitting and actively using a table in El Bacio and not ordering what someone else thinks is how much they should spend/order/drink isn’t chair hogs, it’s using a common space available to all. And they are considered ‘chair hogs’ by some because they got there first. Life at a popular spot. we play cards there and order drinks and snacks and so on.

 

I’d hope upon hope there isn’t someone watching us intently, walking by to see if there is anything in my coffee cup and so on, but apparently there are. I understand the issue and kind of get bugged by the guy sitting in the chair next to the window sleeping. I’d like to wake him up and ask him to nap in his SR, but that’s life. And I don’t complain because it’s None Of My Business.....well I’ll complain to my wife and she tells me: Get A Life.

 

And why just complain about readers and card players? What about the Very Inconsiderate People (VIP’s) who enjoy the music being played in that venue and they order one drink and sit and listen for an extended time, or the two couples sitting and talking for extended time? By the way ‘extended time’ is defined as time that cuts into when you want that table. 

 

Personally, none of these goings-on are any of our business......we just got there later. You have no idea how much those card players or readers have ordered and used. Life is tough when you don’t immediately get what you want and someone else is getting it.

 

Den

Exactly.  

[phoenix_dream]

I can't believe some of the comments on this thread.  First of all, there is zero comparison between people sitting in the lounges or at Al Bacio versus the infamous chair hogs.  Chair hogs block out space they aren't using and hold it for hours.  It is also unfair to compare this to the buffet area on embarkation day- there are limited options for eating on that day and I completely agree that people should eat and move on.

 

But as to lounges and Café Al Bacio - I completely, 100% disagree.  With more and more public areas being taken for cabins and pay-to-play things like specialty restaurants, where the heck am I supposed to hang out?  With all this revolutionizing it is getting worse and worse.  I don't like to sit by the pool, and DH already has had skin cancer so that is not an option.  Am I supposed to go sit alone in my cabin because I am done with my coffee??  Maybe I can go and sit alone for hours on the new uncomfortable balcony chairs.  Often at various times there is music playing at Al Bacio I would like to listen to.  Do I have to drink and run, or not sit at all if I am not ordering coffee?  Why don't I have the same right as you do to sit and listen to the music?  We're all paying passengers aren't we?   Does my being there prohibit you from obtaining your coffee?  No.  You can take it and find a seat elsewhere. 

 

And at bars?  Do I need to drink at a certain rate to satisfy your requirements??  Are you the drink police, watching over me to make sure I drink enough to suit you?  I want to listen to the music the same as you do.  Maybe I will only have one drink in an hour or two - do I have less right to sit there than those whose main goal seems to be maximizing their drink package?!?  Where else am I supposed to go at night if I want to listen to music???

 

I also completely disagree that there is a fair comparison to your local Starbucks or lounges.  When one sits for hours there and does not order anything you are taking away revenue from the business.  This is a completely different environment.  I have already paid to be on the cruise ship, and as such all the public areas should be available for my use the same as anyone else's.  You have the same rights as I do - if you get there first and want to stay, too bad for me.   I respect your right to do that.  Too bad you don't respect mine because I don't drink enough coffee or alcohol to meet your requirements.

[dkjretired]

17 hours ago, villauk said:

 

 

I understand what you are saying, however, those people haven’t paid to be in the Starbucks shop, but they have paid to be on a Celebrity cruise and to use any public space open to them.

 

Sometimes these people are rude like parking themselves in the buffet or Aqua Spa while people are looking for seats to eat their meals. Particularly true in buffet on embarkation day playing cards until the rooms clear.

[hcat]

10 hours ago, Germancruiser said:

Well,  that is not a yes or no question- some may pass through without purchasing something " to go"- some come back later! So yes- maybe- and no maybe not!

On my last TA on board Silhouette in April this year I always found available space in Al Bacio- no problem there- not always my favorite seat by the window- but there were always seats available. When a table for four was taken by just one person- i politly  asked if i may take a seat- not once was i turned down. Same when I sat there alone- i met so many interessting and nice people who joined me- or visa verse!

I sit there for at least one or maybe two hours- have tea- have a hot chocolate whatsoever- if one beverage is gone i order the next- so yes they make revenue with my drinks there- and therefore I sit there as long as want and ORDER something! LOL!

 

Works great when a space is not overtaken as a card lounge for the day!

 

There  have been some good ideas here.  X could  offer a " cards and coffeehouse "  in a  portion of a restaurant for  part of the day..or re-purpose  some nicer areas..lower level of EDEN or hideway on S class.

 

Once the drink packages were introduced, Cafe Baccio has been overwhelmed at  various times at the counter, even without the card players.   Aside from take out  counter crowds, there is not enough wait staff for tables,,

 

  At least  adding Baccio II in the buffet has improved  having dripping pool guests come to main cafe for afternoon goodies.

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by hcat

[Icon901]

11 hours ago, Germancruiser said:

Well,  that is not a yes or no question- some may pass through without purchasing something " to go"- some come back later! So yes- maybe- and no maybe not!

It absolutely is a yes or no question. It was deliberately phrased:

 

Do you think there are potential customers that decide not to make purchases at El Bacio due to seating being full?
 
Certainly some folks are okay with the inconvenience and get something to go, however it's impossible to deny many others simply keep walking. People who are overstaying their purchase (or not purchasing at all) and sitting in the chairs are costing the business money, and denying other cruisers the chance to enjoy El Bacio.

 

Using the space for recreation outside consuming El Bacio goods is disrespectful to the business/staff and your fellow cruisers, no matter how you spin it in your heads. 

Does that mean you have to chug your coffee and move on? Of course not! If there are open tables around, it's far less of a concern.

But those staying for 2-3 hours playing cards after purchasing a coffee are the offenders a hand, here. You know whether you're using the space for it's purpose, or if you're being disrespectful to fellow cruisers or not. 

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by Icon901

[Hlitner]

This reminds me of politicians who are always criticizing existing rules, laws and policies but seldom offer any real solution.  Yes, it is easy to not like something but what to do?  If cruise lines had additional security officers standing next to every public venue who routinely told folks to "move on" do folks thing this would help?  Or perhaps we just need Café Al Bacio Police and the MBT (Martini Bar Thugs) who pushed folks away from the bar so others could take their place?   Sure, we all have suffered the frustration of wanting to sit down at a venue only to find there is no room.  But nobody has ever found a fair solution other then trying to create a stronger attraction somewhere else that encourages folks to voluntarily move-on.  On the S-Class ships we often head out of our cabin around 6pm for pre-dinner drinks.  The Martini Bar is our usual destination and if the place is a total zoo we will sometimes go to the World Bar..which is usually completely empty!  There are also other bars around the ship that are empty (we seldom have trouble getting seats at the Ensemble Bar (just outside Murano).  

 

Celebrity needs to find a way to draw folks to these other venues.  In the past we have seen some ships use "Happy Hour" specials (at selected bars) as a way to attract folks.  Another possibility would be to offer a nice selection of hot/cold snacks at a different venue.  The cruise lines need to think out of the box in how to balance passenger load between various venues.  It will not completely solve the situation, but would help.  As to the Lido problem (folks spending all day at Lido tables playing cards and knitting) I have no solution.  On our last Equinox cruise there was actually a passenger formed knitting club that met in the Lido at 10:15 every morning and never left their tables until late afternoon.  One morning, DW and I were having breakfast (a little after 10am) at a table in the Lido when a female passenger walked over to our table and told us that we must move in 5 minutes!  We all looked at her like she was insane and DW asked, "why?"  She explained that her knitting group sat at that table (and others nearby) every day so we had to move elsewhere.  Needless to say, after the initial shock we politely told her to get lost.  My thought at the time was that management should ban any activities (i.e. cards, knitting, etc) in the Lido.  But again, enforcing such a rule can become quite Ugly.

 

Hank 

[Fouremco]

10 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

I also completely disagree that there is a fair comparison to your local Starbucks or lounges.  When one sits for hours there and does not order anything you are taking away revenue from the business.

And when you sit in the Café al Bacio for hours without ordering anything,  you are also taking revenue from its business.

[Icon901]

23 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

This reminds me of politicians who are always criticizing existing rules, laws and policies but seldom offer any real solution.  Yes, it is easy to not like something but what to do?  If cruise lines had additional security officers standing next to every public venue who routinely told folks to "move on" do folks thing this would help?  Or perhaps we just need Café Al Bacio Police and the MBT (Martini Bar Thugs) who pushed folks away from the bar so others could take their place?

 

Sure, we all have suffered the frustration of wanting to sit down at a venue only to find there is no room.  But nobody has ever found a fair solution other then trying to create a stronger attraction somewhere else that encourages folks to voluntarily move-on.  On the S-Class ships we often head out of our cabin around 6pm for pre-dinner drinks.  The Martini Bar is our usual destination and if the place is a total zoo we will sometimes go to the World Bar..which is usually completely empty!  There are also other bars around the ship that are empty (we seldom have trouble getting seats at the Ensemble Bar (just outside Murano).  

 

This is a pretty good post aside from the hyperbole at open. Agreed the ships could learn from popular concepts and expand them, or find ways to attract folks to less popular concepts as you stated. 

That said, the one thing people DO have control over is being a decent human and being respectful of your fellow cruisemates. Unfortunately the sense of entitlement is strong among a growing number of folks, and they either fail to see their rude behavior or don't care. 
 

Quote

 One morning, DW and I were having breakfast (a little after 10am) at a table in the Lido when a female passenger walked over to our table and told us that we must move in 5 minutes!  We all looked at her like she was insane and DW asked, "why?"  She explained that her knitting group sat at that table (and others nearby) every day so we had to move elsewhere.  Needless to say, after the initial shock we politely told her to get lost.  My thought at the time was that management should ban any activities (i.e. cards, knitting, etc) in the Lido.  But again, enforcing such a rule can become quite Ugly.

 

Hank 

Great example of entitlement and rudeness here. I figure it's safe to assume there were other tables nearby they could have used? If not, large swatches of dining tables should absolutely not be claimed for knitting groups if needed for their primary purpose. 

 

Either way, It would have been far more appropriate for her to understand that you'd be getting up within the next 20-30 minutes after you finish your breakfast... or at worst, to politely approach your table, and ask that you let her know when you're getting up so she can claim the table for their event. 

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by Icon901

[mayleeman]

18 hours ago, mrsgoggins said:

 

Really? I’m amazed! If we know that someone wants our parking space we definitely do not linger, but speed up. I can’t believe that most people don’t behave as we do.

 

I can understand why, because in a busy lot if a car comes along when you are getting ready to back up, you don't know if it will stop. Then you don't know if it is waiting for you or someone else. So you have to check again for other cars, all the while trying to be mindful that the waiting driver has allowed enough space. Like many other driving situations, things go faster if a waiting car uses a turn signal to make its intent clearer. Simply put, a nearby car requires a bit more caution, not to mention how the huge SUVs and pickups nowdays limit visibility.

[Hlitner]

5 minutes ago, Icon901 said:

 

This is a pretty good post aside from the hyperbole at open. Agreed the ships could learn from popular concepts and expand them, or find ways to attract folks to less popular concepts as you stated. 

That said, the one thing people DO have control over is being a decent human and being respectful of your fellow cruisemates. Unfortunately the sense of entitlement is strong among a growing number of folks, and they either fail to see their rude behavior or don't care. 
 

Great example of entitlement and rudeness here. I figure it's safe to assume there were other tables nearby they could have used? If not, large swatches of dining tables should absolutely not be claimed for knitting groups. 

 

Either way, It would have been far more appropriate for her to understand that you'd be getting up within the next 20-30 minutes after you finish your breakfast... or at worst, to politely approach your table, and ask that you let her know when you're getting up so she can claim the table for their event. 

 

You don't understand.  We were sitting at HER table!  There are times when the best comedy on a ship is the behavior of fellow passengers :).  When I was somewhat younger I used to get really annoyed (and even angry) at that kind of incident.  Now, in my ole years it is just an opportunity to have a good laugh (which really infuriates some folks).

 

Hank

[Spif Barwunkel]

All you good folks who have taken the time to respond to this thread, thank you! There is a lot more to be said, I am sure.

To Hlitner and phoenix_dream, the fervor with which you expressed your thoughts and opinions is certainly laudable. However, I assure you that the OP is not frustrated nor angry. As to meters on chairs and loungers, not a bad idea, but that would require a substantial X expenditure when you consider meter cost plus the hiring of meter persons to issue summons's. I am sure that those costs would be passed on to the cruising public. Maybe someone at Celebrity will run with that.

 

Also, "I have the right." Has this statement become overworked and overused? Has it become a catch-all for anything controversial or not in keeping with an individual's thoughts and opinions? Perhaps "I have the right" allows us the opportunity to mask the fact that we really don't have any consideration for our fellow cruisers. I paid the price, I don't need to be nice...so to speak.   

 

 

 

     

[villauk]

14 hours ago, Icon901 said:

Do you think there are potential customers that decide not to make purchases at El Bacio due to seating being full. 

 

 

I would say that the majority of pax have already paid for those drinks as most have the included ‘free’ beverage package, as well as a few more who are Elite plus and above (perk of free coffees). There would likely be little revenue lost (think of actual costs to X) in this instance. In fact, X could possibly prefer it the way it currently is: less pax utilising their beverage packages, and so reduced costs to the company, because of the lack of seating.

Edited October 10, 2019 by villauk

[hcat]

 

Any other areas losing their appeal?

Another one for us at certain times is the Solarium.

 

We try to  enjoy the Solarium as early as possible in the day  or after dinner if  it is not family swim time.   It  can get very crowded and noisy in the covered Solarium as the day goes on.  Many  like to nap ( and snore) on the loungers but do not swim or use the hot tubs.    Sort of the  sleepers dayroom .( but  not quite as bad as the Royal C Oasis library!)

 

We also liked the former lunch offerings much betterm  but is nice for tea or coffee in the am.

 

[davekathy]

5 minutes ago, hcat said:

 

Any other areas losing their appeal?

Another one for us at certain times is the Solarium.

 

We try to  enjoy the Solarium as early as possible in the day  or after dinner if  it is not family swim time.   It  can get very crowded and noisy in the covered Solarium as the day goes on.  Many  like to nap ( and snore) on the loungers but do not swim or use the hot tubs.    Sort of the  sleepers dayroom .( but  not quite as bad as the Royal C Oasis library!)

 

We also liked the former lunch offerings much betterm  but is nice for tea or coffee in the am.

 

Noisy because of all the snoring. 😉 

[hcat]

Yeah..the snoring but also a loud din from  conversation etc  in a covered area

 

They used to play nice spa music..pan flute,  birds,   nature sounds , piano etc,  That gave a nice spa feeling to the area..They don't play music of any kind..sort of like a big indoor pool area at the Y.   

 

But we still enjoy it when it's peaceful

[Germancruiser]

Oh well since I can not afford my own ship- i am stuck with what is on offer out there- and have to ajust to the flow of passengers- however good or bad they behave!

As I said- even on a Transatlantic this year it was no problem to get a seat in Al Baccio- even at peak times.

The staff there was extremly friendly and attentive. Also i never came across card players or others who did not order anything- just sat there.

What i found- lounges- bars- are all the more popular the more they offer a view to the sea- at day- i mean!