Steve Jobs has Ruined Cruising

[UnorigionalName]

2 hours ago, perditax said:

Or are we to assume that the only virtuous cruising activity is genteel conversation with strangers, kept to a polite volume?

 

Obviously since I'M the MOST and ONLY IMPORTANT person in the world, the other 4-5,000 extra-character passengers need to bow to my wishes.  If I want to chat, they must chat with me.  If I want quiet, they must be quiet.  Since only I am important it is rude of them to try to enjoy themselves without consulting my preferences first.

 

/s

 

[Floater4life]

25 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

@Floater4life I thought the topic was how cruises have been ruined by Steve Jobs because of phones, and the language used reveals that some people get judgmental seeing other people using phones on cruises beyond some acceptable level. 

 

The post you just responded to simply made the point about how there are other ways people act or things they do, that like viewing phones also can be described in ways that are judgmental, demonstrating quite aptly how rude it is for people to comment in such a condemnatory fashion. 

 

a·nal·o·gy

 

noun

1. a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification

Thank you for the definition of analogy.  I never would have found it.  Thank you again. I did understand their comments but chose to ignore since my comments were very specific to people on phones.  If you read my comment it does say it's your life to spend as much time on your phone as you wish.  As long as you don't talk like everyone is deaf on them have at it...exercise your freedom to do so....go for it. I also think people chasing melanoma, wishing to drink to liver damage or sit in front of a slot machine are free to do so as well as long as I don't have to participate in it too ....like someone's speaker phone call.  SIT ON YOUR PHONE  I do not care (I think it's dumb) but I'm sure you would think what I do is dumb but so be it.  I'm not made of glass.  See how that works.  I have opinions but don't generally care what you do with your 7 days on a ship.  This is a comment board and  think opinions happen.  

 

o·pin·ion

/əˈpinyən/

noun

noun: opinion; plural noun: opinions

1. a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

[mayleeman]

@Floater4life I gave a lengthy description of how and why I use a phone (all not involving noise) and why I might spend hours doing so. Why is my use "dumb"?

 

I absolutely respect your right to have an opinion. I have many opinions. But I am not so rude as to express 99.99% of the ones that I know reflect judgment about someone else. But that is just me.

Edited January 23, 2020 by mayleeman

[LMaxwell]

5 hours ago, cruising sister said:

Would having your face buried in a book be off putting? Some people may enjoy a drink while they are reading and should feel free to do that and not socialize.  Not everyone is an extravert and may not want to engage in conversation but they may like the atmosphere of the lounge and may read instead of talking.  We should not worry about what others are doing and enjoy our cruises in the way we want to.  I use an e reader and will have my face buried in it a lot on my month long cruise in March.  It is the only time I get to myself and I intend to take full advantage of it whenever and wherever I want to on ship.   Heck, my 93 year old father used the latest  iPhone and Applewatch all the time and using it kept his mind sharp.  My point is each to their own.  Happy sailings to all.

 

All I said is it changes the atmosphere.  Yes, if I walked into the Martini Bar and every had their face buried in a book it would change the atmosphere.  I wouldn't have a problem with it.  Just noting a difference.  I never said people could not or should not do as they please; so long as they are not being obtrusive to others there isn't a problem. 

 

Same argument that eventually killed formal nights; people wanted to do things that, while not hurting anyone else, did undoubtedly change the atmosphere until there was no point.  Perhaps they will upgrade many of the bars to be like airport bars with built in tablets that have news, games, menus, and phone chargers built in.  

 

Things evolve. 

 

Throwing your fathers age out there was a bit strange and unneeded reverse ageism.  I am 38.  So what? 

[cruising sister]

19 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

All I said is it changes the atmosphere.  Yes, if I walked into the Martini Bar and every had their face buried in a book it would change the atmosphere.  I wouldn't have a problem with it.  Just noting a difference.  I never said people could not or should not do as they please; so long as they are not being obtrusive to others there isn't a problem. 

 

Same argument that eventually killed formal nights; people wanted to do things that, while not hurting anyone else, did undoubtedly change the atmosphere until there was no point.  Perhaps they will upgrade many of the bars to be like airport bars with built in tablets that have news, games, menus, and phone chargers built in.  

 

Things evolve. 

 

Throwing your fathers age out there was a bit strange and unneeded reverse ageism.  I am 38.  So what? 

He loved Steve Jobs!  HAPPY SAILINGS!

[Langley Cruisers]

1 hour ago, LMaxwell said:

Throwing your fathers age out there was a bit strange and unneeded reverse ageism...

 

6 hours ago, cruising sister said:

...Heck, my 93 year old father used the latest  iPhone and Applewatch all the time and using it kept his mind sharp. 

 

I got her point - her father was old but his mind was kept young using modern technology, which I suppose is one of the points of this thread.

[Oville]

 

 

[Oville]

To quote the OP “Just back from our first Edge cruise” so he/she must have been on the same January 12, 2020 cruise as we were.  This whole thread is based on an afternoon in the Martini Bar where 4 people were using their phones and not socializing with the OP so he/she decided to take pix of these folks.  With one exception we never observed anyone using their devices to consider them being annoying or loud.  Perhaps we are used to how the world works in 2020 but we spent plenty of time around the ship and did not find an abundance of over use of phones or tablets.

[mom says]

1 hour ago, Oville said:

we spent plenty of time around the ship and did not find an abundance of over use of phones or tablets.

And here's the thing- unless you (general you) are stalking people 24/7, how do you know that they are "over using" their devices? Sure, there may be the odd tech addict who is glued to it all the time. But I would wager the vast majority pull it out for a short time, use it for whatever purpose, then carry on with other activities. Just because those 4 people were at the bar and using their phones AT THAT TIME, doesn't mean they spent all their time on them. Seems like a lot of the Luddites can only think in terms of black and white/ all or nothing extremes.

[Germancruiser]

 Each to his own and everyone is entitled to his own opinion!

 

[Oville]

1 hour ago, mom says said:

And here's the thing- unless you (general you) are stalking people 24/7, how do you know that they are "over using" their devices? Sure, there may be the odd tech addict who is glued to it all the time. But I would wager the vast majority pull it out for a short time, use it for whatever purpose, then carry on with other activities. Just because those 4 people were at the bar and using their phones AT THAT TIME, doesn't mean they spent all their time on them. Seems like a lot of the Luddites can only think in terms of black and white/ all or nothing extremes.

Please reread my post 

[mayleeman]

43 minutes ago, Oville said:

Please reread my post 

I think the reference by @mom to the "general" form of "you" signaled that her post was an extension of, not disagreement with, your point. As if to make your sentence read, "We did not see an overuse of phones, and, anyway, how could anyone ever measure what "overuse" is without shadowing people 24 hrs a day?"

[yorky]

7 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

All I said is it changes the atmosphere.  Yes, if I walked into the Martini Bar and every had their face buried in a book it would change the atmosphere.  I wouldn't have a problem with it.  Just noting a difference.  I never said people could not or should not do as they please; so long as they are not being obtrusive to others there isn't a problem. 

 

Same argument that eventually killed formal nights; people wanted to do things that, while not hurting anyone else, did undoubtedly change the atmosphere until there was no point.  Perhaps they will upgrade many of the bars to be like airport bars with built in tablets that have news, games, menus, and phone chargers built in.  

 

Things evolve. 

 

Throwing your fathers age out there was a bit strange and unneeded reverse ageism.  I am 38.  So what? 

A very good post. Times have undoubtedly changed, in my personal opinion not always for the better. I can honestly see the day when interaction between individuals is practically none existent as the internet totally takes over. It’s quite funny at time seeing just about everyone with their heads down looking at a phone or tablet. The mention of formal night is also very accurate, it’s totally different these days. 

[farawayatsea]

Lessons from this thread.

 

1) People looking at their phones is OK on their own.  It's their own business, like reading a book.

2) Making calls in public is rude and annoys people so don't do it.

3) Continually taking a phone out when you are with you in company with other people is bad manners. Similar to someone taking a book out and reading it at a dinner party. It shows a lot of disrespect to those you are with.

4) I think most people think the OP is wrong to be taking photos of people he doesn't know or have permission from.

[leisuretraveler223]

On 1/20/2020 at 9:41 PM, farmermd said:

Just back from our first Edge cruise and one of my observations is the now prolific use of phones throughout the ship.  I sat at the Martini Bar one afternoon and observed 4 people in a row at the bar with their noses buried in their phone, oblivious of me taking pictures of them. I observed a person on the pool deck on a sea day having a FaceTime conversation with his grandkid. Numerous times I heard the sounds of incoming text messages and emails.  All of this will only get worse as internet access on ships gets faster and cheaper, especially when it is offered as a “free” perk, and as cruise lines encourage the use of their app while onboard to get the latest schedule of activities and “chat” with fellow cruisers. As a CC Elite member, I get 90 free internet minutes. I used a total of 7 minutes on my seven day cruise, and that was only to check in for my early flight. 
 

Part of the allure of cruising used to be a total disconnect from the world and having new conversations with different people. The allure is quickly fading...

 

What an incredibly narrow minded "my-way-of-living-is-the-only-way" bit of drivel.

 

You know what I think has ruined cruising?  People like yourself with a burr in your saddle who get all bent out of shape about what others are doing.

 

Technology has SAVED cruising for me.  I own my business, and being able to be in touch in a way I see fit allows me the freedom to travel and enjoy myself.  It's invaluable to me.

 

Want to whine and complain about how a younger generation than your own chooses to live?  Have fun with that, your parents and grandparents generation were undoubtedly just as appalled by your generation.

 

And what kind of creep is taking pictures of strangers using their phones at a bar????

[bikerunner]

3 minutes ago, leisuretraveler223 said:

 

What an incredibly narrow minded "my-way-of-living-is-the-only-way" bit of drivel.

 

You know what I think has ruined cruising?  People like yourself with a burr in your saddle who get all bent out of shape about what others are doing.

 

Technology has SAVED cruising for me.  I own my business, and being able to be in touch in a way I see fit allows me the freedom to travel and enjoy myself.  It's invaluable to me.

 

Want to whine and complain about how a younger generation than your own chooses to live?  Have fun with that, your parents and grandparents generation were undoubtedly just as appalled by your generation.

 

And what kind of creep is taking pictures of strangers using their phones at a bar????

The other person did not judge the other people like you have.  Just observations and put a statement how he likes to cruise.  I am also the total disconnect.  i check emails in my room in morning and thats about it.  Agree that taking pictures of people is strange but it is a public spot guess what your allowed.  I have many friends who own there own businesses and yes it has allowed them to go on more vacations, but most I know have the decency to have conversations/face time etc in more private spots.  They always carry there phones, and in public if anything on vibrate.   

[4774Papa]

17 hours ago, perditax said:

 

If you want to spend a cruise giving yourself melanoma and liver damage at the same time, that's your business. (Don't forget, there's also a special place for your lung cancer needs.)

 

If you want to spend a cruise staring like a zombie into the bright, shiny, loud screen of a ... video poker or slot machine, that's your business.

 

See? Flip it any direction and it's just plain rude and judgmental. 

 

Or are we to assume that the only virtuous cruising activity is genteel conversation with strangers, kept to a polite volume?

Everyone has an opinion and perhaps they all stink, but this forum elicits opinion.  I don't see a problem with posters that show some judgment. Perhaps there is some wisdom to be learned.   If you don't like the post, respond to it or ignore it.

[cgolf1]

Rethinking the OPs comment, perhaps these folks were using their phones to look at the Celebrity App to plan the rest of their day;).

 

As far as the people being in pictures I would take of the ship. Trust me I my goal is not include any of you in my pictures, I would rather not have you, or myself, in the pictures, but when getting pictures to do a review on this and other cruise sites and to show family the great trip we had, it is unavoidable. 

[leisuretraveler223]

5 minutes ago, bikerunner said:

The other person did not judge the other people like you have.  Just observations and put a statement how he likes to cruise.  I am also the total disconnect.  i check emails in my room in morning and thats about it.  Agree that taking pictures of people is strange but it is a public spot guess what your allowed.  I have many friends who own there own businesses and yes it has allowed them to go on more vacations, but most I know have the decency to have conversations/face time etc in more private spots.  They always carry there phones, and in public if anything on vibrate.   

 

I don't disagree with a lot of what you just said.  I always have my phone on vibrate. I would never dream of taking a call in an area that might disturb people. But if someone is looking at their phone at a bar, the only person who really has a right to be bothered by it is his or her companion, or perhaps the bartender/waiter if he or she is too lazy to look up and make eye contact.

 

I just bristle at the assertion that if you don't completely unplug, you're "doing it wrong".  I CHOOSE to stay connected because it's what works for me.  I also choose HOW connected I really am.  There will be an "out of office" notice on my email, so no one expects to hear back, or relies on me seeing something.  But taking a few moments here or there to clear out or quickly address something is personally preferable to unplugging for the week and having to deal with the whole pile when I get back.

 

Perhaps I am guilty of what I often accuse others of: inferring tone where none was intended.  I read the OPs comment as critical and condescending to anyone using a device.  Perhaps that wasn't intended.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

12 minutes ago, cgolf1 said:

Rethinking the OPs comment, perhaps these folks were using their phones to look at the Celebrity App to plan the rest of their day;).

 

Excellent point. (Just as many of the people "buried in their phones at Disney" as has been mentioned here could have been looking for fast passes, dining reservations, doing mobile ordering, looking at the maps/wait times, and/or using the Play Disney Parks thing.) 🙂

 

13 minutes ago, cgolf1 said:

As far as the people being in pictures I would take of the ship. Trust me I my goal is not include any of you in my pictures, I would rather not have you, or myself, in the pictures, but when getting pictures to do a review on this and other cruise sites and to show family the great trip we had, it is unavoidable. 

 

I think most people understand that there is a likelihood they may end up in the background of pictures. But there is a difference in that and someone intentionally taking a picture of someone for the purpose of calling them out and shaming them for something. (I'm not a WalMart person - wasn't even before moving to NYC, but I put the "People of WalMart" site in the same category of "not cool".) The incidental background is generally accepted; the intentional taking of a pic is just plain rude and bullying.

[Mike981]

On 1/20/2020 at 8:41 PM, farmermd said:

 

Part of the allure of cruising used to be a total disconnect from the world and having new conversations with different people. The allure is quickly fading...

 

 

This maybe true back in the day when it was impossible to stay connected. My first cruise was back in 2000 and a friend who owned a resort checked in everyday by phone, imagine the cost. Makes today's internet charges pale in comparison.

[bikerunner]

6 minutes ago, leisuretraveler223 said:

 

I don't disagree with a lot of what you just said.  I always have my phone on vibrate. I would never dream of taking a call in an area that might disturb people. But if someone is looking at their phone at a bar, the only person who really has a right to be bothered by it is his or her companion, or perhaps the bartender/waiter if he or she is too lazy to look up and make eye contact.

 

I just bristle at the assertion that if you don't completely unplug, you're "doing it wrong".  I CHOOSE to stay connected because it's what works for me.  I also choose HOW connected I really am.  There will be an "out of office" notice on my email, so no one expects to hear back, or relies on me seeing something.  But taking a few moments here or there to clear out or quickly address something is personally preferable to unplugging for the week and having to deal with the whole pile when I get back.

 

Perhaps I am guilty of what I often accuse others of: inferring tone where none was intended.  I read the OPs comment as critical and condescending to anyone using a device.  Perhaps that wasn't intended.

Agree, Hence the problem not getting the inferred tone when its this type of communication. Where many have to be careful in what and how things are worded since it is very easy and quick to interpret many ways.  Ohh I agree the completely unplug is not very convenient for many.  With how commerce and business works 24 hrs a day now most really cant anymore.  I know next cruise, I go on longer I probably will check my work email a bit more since last time I came back to 783 emails work related.  I work in a large hospital org in IT.  

[leisuretraveler223]

1 minute ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

 

But there is a difference in that and someone intentionally taking a picture of someone for the purpose of calling them out and shaming them for something. (I'm not a WalMart person - wasn't even before moving to NYC, but I put the "People of WalMart" site in the same category of "not cool".) The incidental background is generally accepted; the intentional taking of a pic is just plain rude and bullying.

 

I agree sort of.  I don't LIKE it, but there is no expectation of privacy in a public place.  Not really much you can do about it.  Technically, I can stand on the sidewalk and take pictures in your window. As long as I'm on public property or right of way, there's nothing you can do about it.  And if I choose to post it online, you can consider me a jerk (I would!), but I won't be in trouble for it.

[leisuretraveler223]

On 1/20/2020 at 9:41 PM, farmermd said:

Part of the allure of cruising used to be a total disconnect from the world and having new conversations with different people. The allure is quickly fading...

 

This may very well be a generational thing. Particularly the "having new conversations with different people".  Twenty plus cruises and I've had very little interest in meeting new people.  On rare occasions I have struck up a conversation with someone or some ones.  But generally, I want to interact with the people whom I have chosen to travel with- my wife and friends or other family members.  Even when I was single and cruised alone, I had little to no interest in meeting people.  I enjoyed my solitude!

[leisuretraveler223]

4 minutes ago, bikerunner said:

Agree, Hence the problem not getting the inferred tone when its this type of communication. Where many have to be careful in what and how things are worded since it is very easy and quick to interpret many ways.  Ohh I agree the completely unplug is not very convenient for many.  With how commerce and business works 24 hrs a day now most really cant anymore.  I know next cruise, I go on longer I probably will check my work email a bit more since last time I came back to 783 emails work related.  I work in a large hospital org in IT.  

 

I own a medical practice.  We're probably being inundated with the same emails! LOL!

 

Part of it is that I choose to travel frequently.  I get away about once a month, be it a long weekend, or something more substantial.  Not completely disconnecting makes this much more reasonable.  I have a morning routine of enjoying a cup of coffee while I take ten minutes and connect to my EMR.  I can clear any documents, address any issues, and just make sure that I don't return to any raging fires.  If I didn't, it would be okay, but re-entry would be much more challenging.  Perhaps if I only vacationed two or three times a year, I wouldn't mind paying this price on my return.  But not having the collateral damage makes monthly more common.