P&O Cruisers - What are things like where YOU are?

[P&O SUE]

Unfortunately many retailers are saying they won’t enforce it, in a way I can see where they’re coming from. They’re retail staff not trained police, I wouldn’t want to work  in a shop at the moment, can you imagine the abuse they’ll get if they try and turn people away ☹️

[brian1]

3 minutes ago, P&O SUE said:

Unfortunately many retailers are saying they won’t enforce it, in a way I can see where they’re coming from. They’re retail staff not trained police, I wouldn’t want to work  in a shop at the moment, can you imagine the abuse they’ll get if they try and turn people away ☹️

From day 1,the behaviour and attitude of some UK citizens have been disgraceful.I never thought I'd be glad when and where we were locked down.It may have saved our lives,you never know.I might have been killed buying a bog roll.

[Adawn47]

19 minutes ago, brian1 said:

From day 1,the behaviour and attitude of some UK citizens have been disgraceful.I never thought I'd be glad when and where we were locked down.It may have saved our lives,you never know.I might have been killed buying a bog roll.

That's why the most sensible among us have always worked it out for ourselves and taken our own advice. Italy  has a government that works together as a single unit and enforces it's laws without worrying who it might upset or offend. 

Sis

[Britboys]

10 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

That's why the most sensible among us have always worked it out for ourselves and taken our own advice. Italy  has a government that works together as a single unit and enforces it's laws without worrying who it might upset or offend. 

Sis

Italy having a government that works together as a single unit? Blimey, that must be the first time in many, many years 😂

[brian1]

51 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Italy having a government that works together as a single unit? Blimey, that must be the first time in many, many years 😂

LOL'I know what you mean,but this frightened the life out of the population when they realised how bad it was.

[Adawn47]

5 hours ago, Britboys said:

Italy having a government that works together as a single unit? Blimey, that must be the first time in many, many years 😂

OK point taken😆. I only meant that they seemed to have taken a firm line with this pandemic and rigorously enforced it. Whatever they did worked and we should have taken notice instead of dancing to Dom's tune.

Avril 

[Josy1953]

I popped into Tesco today and I only saw one person who was not wearing a face covering of some sort.  The message seems to have got through to the majority.

[Harry Peterson]

5 hours ago, Britboys said:

Italy having a government that works together as a single unit? Blimey, that must be the first time in many, many years 😂

Don’t knock it. Their government acted quickly and effectively.  Ours didn’t.  And as a result our death rate per million is considerably worse than theirs.

[terrierjohn]

4 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Don’t knock it. Their government acted quickly and effectively.  Ours didn’t.  And as a result our death rate per million is considerably worse than theirs.

That is still supposition Harry, we won't know the definitive answer for quite some time, so perhaps we should all be more circumspect with our opinions.

[Britboys]

35 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Don’t knock it. Their government acted quickly and effectively.  Ours didn’t.  And as a result our death rate per million is considerably worse than theirs.

Certainly not knocking them about the current situation Harry - it's just that in the past Italy has not been known for a 'strong and stable' government. 

[wowzz]

4 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

Don’t knock it. Their government acted quickly and effectively.  Ours didn’t.  And as a result our death rate per million is considerably worse than theirs.

Harry - the Italian response to deaths in OAP homes was terrible.  Many hundreds died but were never included in the official CV19 figures.

And now the UK figures are having to be revised downwards due to the stupidity of PHE, who, in their wisdom, decided that if you died in a road accident, and had previously been tested positive for CV19,  then your death would be declared as being due to  CV19.

It's interesting to note that the head of  PHE, Duncan Selbie, has not made a single public appearance  since the pandemic started. 

Read the link and weep.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-britain-tracing-sp/special-report-into-the-fog-how-britain-lost-track-of-the-coronavirus-idUKKBN2400ZS

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by wowzz

[Harry Peterson]

7 hours ago, wowzz said:

Harry - the Italian response to deaths in OAP homes was terrible.  Many hundreds died but were never included in the official CV19 figures.

And now the UK figures are having to be revised downwards due to the stupidity of PHE, who, in their wisdom, decided that if you died in a road accident, and had previously been tested positive for CV19,  then your death would be declared as being due to  CV19.

It's interesting to note that the head of  PHE, Duncan Selbie, has not made a single public appearance  since the pandemic started. 

Read the link and weep.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-britain-tracing-sp/special-report-into-the-fog-how-britain-lost-track-of-the-coronavirus-idUKKBN2400ZS

 

An interesting link, Wowzz, though we have to remember the chronic underfunding of PHE and the NHS that had been going on for years.  And who was in charge - government ministers or PHE?

 

The revision of UK figures will probably make little difference - how many people died post-Covid of road accidents, as against the far more likely deaths caused by Covid itself.  I know of one such case where the patient was released from ICU, apparently better, but died a few days later.

 

Italian hospitals were overrun.  Ours appeared not to be, but in reality people in care homes and older people simply weren;t allowed anywhere near them.  It's a very sad story, and I do hope the time we have now is being properly used to get a better state of preparedness for the autumn and winter.

[kruzseeka]

I agree that mistakes were made and much must be learned from the response to this crisis - actions taken or not/provision of PPE/slow response rate/ lack of care home strategy/role of various bodies - and I'm sure many other aspects too.  And some of that review won't make good reading I fear.

 

Apart from some fairly obvious conclusions in terms of PPE and care homes about which i think we probably all agree, we have a lot of 'unpicking'' of data to do - which won't be possible until some considerable time into the future.

 

We are given death rates, reporting rates, % of this,  % of that, comparisons of death rate within many different categories - age, ethnicity, underlying health conditions, obesity, housing conditions/overcrowding, poverty, population density, culture and these give important leads in terms of future management, risk assessment and hopefully some guidance on trying to minimise or at least target responses hopefully to reduce the impact in the future.

 

But one of the comparisons is death rates between different countries.  I can't help but think this is almost impossible to determine with any degree of accuracy at least at the moment. 

 

Are we comparing like with like?  (Almost certainly not).  How are the death rates recorded from country to country?  How accurate is the information given?  How transparent are some countries in reporting their death rates?   I think we perhaps have suspicions about the willingness of some countries to be upfront about Covid19.

 

The old adage 'Lies, d***ed lies and statistics' I think is so appropriate here.  So much to unravel, so many interventions/effects/factors to be teased out.  It may never be possible to truly compare like with like.  What about a country with 5x the area of the UK but a population about the size of London?  Countries where the population conforms.....?  (Much as we bemoan those who adopt anti-social behaviour in our country I'm sure we really wouldn't want a State where non-compliance or freedom of speech results in 'disappearance').  

 

It's so complicated - I think I've rambled on enough - but I do think a lot of the information we have now will have to be very thoroughly and critically assessed in the future and may give us a different picture at least in respect of some of the comparisons now being made. 

 

The one thing I do believe though is despite any deficiencies in the response or lack of guidance by Government, our hospitals and health care workers can hold their heads high having worked through very challenging conditions.  I'm sure they would rate highly in any comparisons drawn. 

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by kruzseeka

[FamilyCruiserUK]

The mask rules like every other rule the UK have introduced is fully dependent on the UK public to follow the guidelines and most thankfully do. However there will also be a few that don't. My wife works in a shop and those without masks when asked simply say they are exempt for medical reasons. Can't ask to see their medical records and can't ban them from shop. So nothing they can do. Police will only come for aggressive people.

 

The government didn't learn from watching Europe just like some American states didn't learn anything watching New York. Now we are better prepared for a "2nd wave". Hospital beds, PPE, some kind of social distancing, better understanding how to treat the symptoms in and out of hosp, better testing etc. 

 

Should have been in place at the beginning after learning from our poor Italian friends. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. That said should be no excuses for a 2nd wave and people flouting the rules should have "massive" fines and penalties.

[NoFlyGuy]

Going to be strange here in Silverstone next weekend and the following weekend when we host two grand prix.

 

Empty camp sites and no crowds down in the village centre on the Friday and Saturday evenings.

The Dadford road and some footpaths that we use are being closed to non locals to discourage people from turning up hoping to be able to see something.

[AndyMichelle]

14 minutes ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

Can't ask to see their medical records and can't ban them from shop. So nothing they can do. Police will only come for aggressive people.

 

 

That must just be her shop, as retailers are allowed to refuse entry but some are choosing not to. 

The risk of disruption is more if you fail to enforce it as the people abiding by the rules could be offended by others being allowed in not complying. 

My humble opinion is if you refuse to or cannot wear  a mask, stay in lockdown. 

It is there to try to stop the spread, not inconvenience you. 

Andy 

[FamilyCruiserUK]

33 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

That must just be her shop, as retailers are allowed to refuse entry but some are choosing not to. 

The risk of disruption is more if you fail to enforce it as the people abiding by the rules could be offended by others being allowed in not complying. 

My humble opinion is if you refuse to or cannot wear  a mask, stay in lockdown. 

It is there to try to stop the spread, not inconvenience you. 

Andy 

 It's her company decision as they do not want staff to be abused.

I agree with you don't go out of you don't follow the rules..but I do believe in harsher penalties for the rule breakers. Need to send a message.

[Eglesbrech]

9 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

That must just be her shop, as retailers are allowed to refuse entry but some are choosing not to. 

The risk of disruption is more if you fail to enforce it as the people abiding by the rules could be offended by others being allowed in not complying. 

My humble opinion is if you refuse to or cannot wear  a mask, stay in lockdown. 

It is there to try to stop the spread, not inconvenience you. 

Andy 

Andy they can’t do that. If they happened to refuse entry to someone who genuinely has a valid medical reason not to wear a mask they would be challenged under the equality act. Shops won’t take that chance as the payouts can be large, reputational damage etc

 

This situation could go on for a very long time, you can’t tell everyone with severe asthma, COAD, lung cancer etc to stay in lockdown forever.  For anyone in that situation a mask is not an “inconvenience”, people simply can’t breathe through them if they already have breathing difficulties.
 

Personally I prefer to use a face shield which does the same job as a cloth mask but is less claustrophobic, I think most people could use them easily enough. They are more bulky so you can’t just stick one in your pocket but as I am not shopping much anyway it is easy enough to plan in advance. 
 

We have had masks up here for a few weeks now and compliance is really high, I don’t think I have seen anyone without a covering so far.  There has been one fine for non compliance, he was given the opportunity to claim exception or cover up and refused so he was fined.

 

Roll on a vaccine so life can go back to normal.

 

 

[AndyMichelle]

1 hour ago, Eglesbrech said:

Andy they can’t do that. If they happened to refuse entry to someone who genuinely has a valid medical reason not to wear a mask they would be challenged under the equality act. Shops won’t take that chance as the payouts can be large, reputational damage etc

 

This situation could go on for a very long time, you can’t tell everyone with severe asthma, COAD, lung cancer etc to stay in lockdown forever.  For anyone in that situation a mask is not an “inconvenience”, people simply can’t breathe through them if they already have breathing difficulties.
 

Personally I prefer to use a face shield which does the same job as a cloth mask but is less claustrophobic, I think most people could use them easily enough. They are more bulky so you can’t just stick one in your pocket but as I am not shopping much anyway it is easy enough to plan in advance. 
 

We have had masks up here for a few weeks now and compliance is really high, I don’t think I have seen anyone without a covering so far.  There has been one fine for non compliance, he was given the opportunity to claim exception or cover up and refused so he was fined.

 

Roll on a vaccine so life can go back to normal.

 

 

I have a retail showroom and have been sent guidelines and taken advice. I can and will refuse entry and I can ask for medical proof, but am hoping to not have to. 

We are trying to offer a safe place to shop, if someone has asthma it doesn't mean they don't have covid. 

Why should I risk my customers and staff who do abide. If you cannot breathe for the short period you are in a store because a mask is required, don't go in a store... 

All my staff wear shields or masks, there is no breathing restriction behind them, so if you can't wear a mask in store, wear a shield. 

Michelle has lung cancer, she won't go in a shop and put herself at risk, or others if she cannot wear a mask... Why would a cancer/asthma/copd sufferer want to? 

Andy 

[jeanlyon]

Customers down here are being fairly good.  They don't actually need a mask in the office as our screens are really good, but I would say 80% come in with one on.

[grapau27]

2 hours ago, AndyMichelle said:

That must just be her shop, as retailers are allowed to refuse entry but some are choosing not to. 

The risk of disruption is more if you fail to enforce it as the people abiding by the rules could be offended by others being allowed in not complying. 

My humble opinion is if you refuse to or cannot wear  a mask, stay in lockdown. 

It is there to try to stop the spread, not inconvenience you. 

Andy 

Absolutely agree with you Andy.

[Eddie99]

This is a link to the Kings College Hospital/Zoe ongoing study.

I have the Zoe App on my phone and report in daily (three or four taps & it’s done.  They send a reminder if you forget)

 

It’s an interesting read.  I think they send a weekly update via email.  There’s also the opportunity to volunteer for vaccine studies.  Good luck if you go for that

 

Anyway - the link.  As I seem to repeat daily - this is not going away any time soon

 

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/incidence-update-23-july

[Eglesbrech]

7 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

I have a retail showroom and have been sent guidelines and taken advice. I can and will refuse entry and I can ask for medical proof, but am hoping to not have to. 

We are trying to offer a safe place to shop, if someone has asthma it doesn't mean they don't have covid. 

Why should I risk my customers and staff who do abide. If you cannot breathe for the short period you are in a store because a mask is required, don't go in a store... 

All my staff wear shields or masks, there is no breathing restriction behind them, so if you can't wear a mask in store, wear a shield. 

Michelle has lung cancer, she won't go in a shop and put herself at risk, or others if she cannot wear a mask... Why would a cancer/asthma/copd sufferer want to? 

Andy 

I did not say you could not ask for medical proof, though even that is treating a disabled customer differently but in the circumstances understandable. I said shops can’t refuse entry to someone who is exempt,  they would need to make some sort of a reasonable adjustment or they would indeed breaking the law. The government acknowledges these circumstances otherwise they would have made the blanket enforcement you are suggesting.
 

As I said I wear a shield and others could do that but they don’t have to if they have a medical condition which is exempt.

 

Why would they go to shops, perhaps because they have no other option and no one to do it for them.

[grapau27]

17 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

I have a retail showroom and have been sent guidelines and taken advice. I can and will refuse entry and I can ask for medical proof, but am hoping to not have to. 

We are trying to offer a safe place to shop, if someone has asthma it doesn't mean they don't have covid. 

Why should I risk my customers and staff who do abide. If you cannot breathe for the short period you are in a store because a mask is required, don't go in a store... 

All my staff wear shields or masks, there is no breathing restriction behind them, so if you can't wear a mask in store, wear a shield. 

Michelle has lung cancer, she won't go in a shop and put herself at risk, or others if she cannot wear a mask... Why would a cancer/asthma/copd sufferer want to? 

Andy 

We had a day in the Lake District yesterday.

We wear our visors in every shop.

You can see in this photo by Lake Windermere Pauline is holding our plastic visors while I took the photo.

[Eddie99]

It’s no great hardship, is it?

 

Here’s Dr Fauci, the US top doc in this field, speaking yesterday 

 

 

America's top infectious diseases expert, Dr Anthony Fauci, has said that "we could start talking about real normality again" in 2021. Although a coronavirus vaccine could be determined "safe and effective" by the end of the year, he doesn't expect it to be widely available in the US until "several months" into 2021.

"I think we will likely know whether a vaccine is safe and effective given the number of phase three trials that are starting literally next week - and there are some in other countries that are already ongoing - that we should know by the end of December of this year, the beginning of next year," he told the Washington Post.

"I think as we get into 2021, several months in, that you would have a vaccine that would be widely available to people in the United States."