If You Are Scared To Cruise, Don't Cruise.

[ToroAzul]

43 minutes ago, Cruise a holic said:

Many "healthy" people also die from Covid- so you have to be very careful.  So many people are morbidly obese- and aren't as healthy as they might think- this isn't a joke- it can affect everyone.

Not at a statistically significant rate

[time4u2go]

45 minutes ago, Cruise a holic said:

Many "healthy" people also die from Covid- so you have to be very careful.  So many people are morbidly obese- and aren't as healthy as they might think- this isn't a joke- it can affect everyone.

Very true.

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 minute ago, time4u2go said:

On the flip side, it is also believed that there are people that died of Covid-19 that were never tested, and for whom the cause of death will not be attributed to Covid-19.  It's probably not a large number, but it is a consideration.  We may never know the true death rate.

I agree. The point I was trying to make is that the death rate is much higher than the common flu. 

[bouhunter]

41 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Do you have evidence to back this up, or is it just your opinion?

Well, anyone with any common sense would know that many people have had the virus and didn't get tested.  A simple google search will turn up lots of info, here's one:

 

https://www.biospace.com/article/multiple-studies-suggest-covid-19-mortality-rate-may-be-lower-than-expected-/

 

The studies referenced indicate that anywhere from 13-85X   more people have had it than the number of positive tests confirmed.  Using the numbers quoted in the posts above to calculate a mortality rate is just nonsense, it would have to assume everyone who has had covid has been tested.

[time4u2go]

31 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I agree. The point I was trying to make is that the death rate is much higher than the common flu. 

No doubt!

[Paulette3028]

On 5/12/2020 at 11:38 PM, ToroAzul said:

 

No cpaps allowed? 

Why would you question that cpap machines wouldn't be allowed?

[ToroAzul]

19 minutes ago, Paulette3028 said:

Why would you question that cpap machines wouldn't be allowed?

 

It was in jest but with some rationale:

 

A. Cpap usage usually carries co-morbidities like obesity. 

 

2. Cpap is an aerosolizing device so if someone was infected the virus would now be airborne instead of droplet. 

 

We have to wear N95 masks at work, on the C-19 floor, for patients with cpap, bipap, trachs, nebulizer treatments, CPR, covid swabbing, feeding tube insertion, etc.... 

Edited May 15, 2020 by ToroAzul

[Paulette3028]

21 hours ago, ToroAzul said:

 

It was in jest but with some rationale:

 

A. Cpap usage usually carries co-morbidities like obesity. 

 

2. Cpap is an aerosolizing device so if someone was infected the virus would now be airborne instead of droplet. 

 

We have to wear N95 masks at work, on the C-19 floor, for patients with cpap, bipap, trachs, nebulizer treatments, CPR, covid swabbing, feeding tube insertion, etc.... 

Sorry,  my that kind of jest, is not appreciated.  Especially since plenty of people using Cpap machines have NO compromising health issues....as per my husband. 

[lenquixote66]

On 5/13/2020 at 7:14 AM, Cruise a holic said:

Many "healthy" people also die from Covid- so you have to be very careful.  So many people are morbidly obese- and aren't as healthy as they might think- this isn't a joke- it can affect everyone.

My best friend died last month from Covid-19.He was in great health .He swam and walked every day .He was a Hall Of Fame Athlete and was always in great physical shape.The only illness he ever had was mono when he was 20.

[Computer Nerd]

On 4/21/2020 at 7:28 AM, Milwaukee Eight said:

People forget if they get sick with COVID19, they put the 1st Responders in harms way. It matters not if those 1st Responders are scared. They have no choice but to risk infection by treating patients. 
 

In my opinion 

Being put into harms way is part of the job for any 1st responder/military member. If they are going to worry about being put into harm's way they chose the wrong profession.

[chipmaster]

On 5/13/2020 at 4:14 AM, Cruise a holic said:

Many "healthy" people also die from Covid- so you have to be very careful.  So many people are morbidly obese- and aren't as healthy as they might think- this isn't a joke- it can affect everyone.

 

What I would say don't judge a book by the cover.

 

I run, and work out hard every day.   I see a lot of really obese people that can run very fast or are amazing in the gym with great weight/strength ratio, so even though they are carrying 20-30% extra weight their heart, lungs etc. are darn strong, imagine what they could do if the lost that weight.   At the same point i see thin people that look like they should be fit and can't get up a stairs and have to take the elevator or have terrible strength to weight ratio or get sick easily... 

 

Thus my take those that die, well they arhn't as healthy as you think and those that are obese and walk out after a couple days are darn strong.   

 

This is a new virus that humanity has never been exposed and the propensity to healthy response versus fatal is deeply buried in your genome and immune system and while generalities are showing up there will be lots of exceptions, they don't change the statistics.

 

But the larger numbers say your risk level is better being thin, young, fit than old, fat, obese, diabetic, etc. etc.     Personally I like to stack the deck in my favor!

Edited May 16, 2020 by chipmaster

[goldfish65]

2 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

My best friend died last month from Covid-19.He was in great health .He swam and walked every day .He was a Hall Of Fame Athlete and was always in great physical shape.The only illness he ever had was mono when he was 20.

 

My condolences, losing your best friend unexpectedly is very sad. Long Island has gotten hit badly.

[lenquixote66]

55 minutes ago, goldfish65 said:

 

My condolences, losing your best friend unexpectedly is very sad. Long Island has gotten hit badly.

Thank you,yes it has,

[WeatherFx]

I plan on going when they start again. No sense in worrying about what may happen. You can do all the so called  "right things" and in the end it doesn't make a bit of difference. Just like the song says, "Live like you were dying".

[Cruise a holic]

17 hours ago, chipmaster said:

 

What I would say don't judge a book by the cover.

 

I run, and work out hard every day.   I see a lot of really obese people that can run very fast or are amazing in the gym with great weight/strength ratio, so even though they are carrying 20-30% extra weight their heart, lungs etc. are darn strong, imagine what they could do if the lost that weight.   At the same point i see thin people that look like they should be fit and can't get up a stairs and have to take the elevator or have terrible strength to weight ratio or get sick easily... 

 

Thus my take those that die, well they arhn't as healthy as you think and those that are obese and walk out after a couple days are darn strong.   

 

This is a new virus that humanity has never been exposed and the propensity to healthy response versus fatal is deeply buried in your genome and immune system and while generalities are showing up there will be lots of exceptions, they don't change the statistics.

 

But the larger numbers say your risk level is better being thin, young, fit than old, fat, obese, diabetic, etc. etc.     Personally I like to stack the deck in my favor!

I do agree that many overweight people, myself included, are very active and healthy.  I could stand to loose 20 pounds.   However statistics don't lie, many more aren't.  My nephew is a bariatric surgeon, and after his patients have procedures, most no longer have diabetes, hypertension and other high risk factors once they loose the weight- but his patients are morbidly obese.    

Edited May 17, 2020 by Cruise a holic

[lenquixote66]

3 hours ago, Cruise a holic said:

I do agree that many overweight people, myself included, are very active and healthy.  I could stand to loose 20 pounds.   However statistics don't lie, many more aren't.  My nephew is a bariatric surgeon, and after his patients have procedures, most no longer have diabetes, hypertension and other high risk factors once they loose the weight- but his patients are morbidly obese.    

I was bordering on on obesity from age 4 to age 18.I did not have a happy childhood.When I was in my senior year of HS I met and became friends with a guy who “forced” me to exercise on a daily basis .Eighteen months later I was in great physical shape,I looked like a Marine.I keep a photo of myself in my wallet.

I weigh 54 pounds less than I did in HS.I suffer from 13 medical illnesses ,however,prior to the pandemic I was exercising in a gym 6 days a week.I cannot walk on my own.My wife brought me to the gym.

[Mikew0805]

On 5/13/2020 at 7:45 AM, Milwaukee Eight said:

Of course. It’s very likely the death rate will drop the more tested. In Florida, it’s looking like 8-10% of people tested are positive. 
 

What do you suggest is the actual death rate of those positive?  Certainly you don’t believe it’s as low as the flu?

Actually, if the German & Santa Clara studies are consistent globally, then the mortality rate will be much closer to the flu. (0.3%-1.1%)

[Milwaukee Eight]

2 hours ago, Mikew0805 said:

Actually, if the German & Santa Clara studies are consistent globally, then the mortality rate will be much closer to the flu. (0.3%-1.1%)

My quote was regarding testing and not death rates. 

[chipmaster]

3 hours ago, Mikew0805 said:

Actually, if the German & Santa Clara studies are consistent globally, then the mortality rate will be much closer to the flu. (0.3%-1.1%)

 

This is a twisting and trying to turn the conversation.

 

I actually don't dispute that they actual real mortality rate is lower than stated, but what is the impact of COVID19 on the death rate, is it minimal or a huge impact today and has it resulted in a flood into ICUs.

 

If so, then what is the right response now is the interesting debate.

 

Actually I'm all for opening agressively, with a real national strategy of test/trace/containment.   It can be done but the US has degenerated doing the right thing to Mask wearing = Lock down or Mask wearing=Loss of freedom.     While opening up is equated to not caring about human life over money.     Frankly that his is the result of total loss of leadership at all levels.  Science gives you numbers and models with which to use to make decision and explain how you made them and what the costs of doing it are versus any other decision.     

 

The scientists and health experts that say we don't have testing and can't open as their will be more deaths don't talk the whole story.   The ones that say open up as the economic loss and tool is to great are also not talking honestly as they have no strategy to address a mitigation of new cases as they will surely increase.

 

The failure is really with the leaders, not any scientist.

[mek]

15 hours ago, chipmaster said:

 

This is a twisting and trying to turn the conversation.

 

I actually don't dispute that they actual real mortality rate is lower than stated, but what is the impact of COVID19 on the death rate, is it minimal or a huge impact today and has it resulted in a flood into ICUs.

 

If so, then what is the right response now is the interesting debate.

 

Actually I'm all for opening agressively, with a real national strategy of test/trace/containment.   It can be done but the US has degenerated doing the right thing to Mask wearing = Lock down or Mask wearing=Loss of freedom.     While opening up is equated to not caring about human life over money.     Frankly that his is the result of total loss of leadership at all levels.  Science gives you numbers and models with which to use to make decision and explain how you made them and what the costs of doing it are versus any other decision.     

 

The scientists and health experts that say we don't have testing and can't open as their will be more deaths don't talk the whole story.   The ones that say open up as the economic loss and tool is to great are also not talking honestly as they have no strategy to address a mitigation of new cases as they will surely increase.

 

The failure is really with the leaders, not any scientist.

But the scientists have been so wrong about much of this.  Even Fauci, back in January, told us we didn't have anything to worry about.  The models have been ridiculously off - they are simply projections and are only as reliable as the data fed into it.  I'm not faulting anyone, (except China and WHO), for not knowing exactly what to expect or how to handle it.

 

[Cruise a holic]

18 minutes ago, mek said:

But the scientists have been so wrong about much of this.  Even Fauci, back in January, told us we didn't have anything to worry about.  The models have been ridiculously off - they are simply projections and are only as reliable as the data fed into it.  I'm not faulting anyone, (except China and WHO), for not knowing exactly what to expect or how to handle it.

 

I think Faucci was trying to be gentle.  Listen to him today- and the other scientist.  Things change- I surely do not fault WHO for this virus.  I think our country did too little to late.  Listen to science- not feel good lay opinions.  Many people now have "cabin fever" but if we have a resurgence of the virus- things could get worse.    I cannot wait to cruise again, but will do so when it is  safe.  I can live without a manicure and haircut.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Cruise a holic

[mek]

8 minutes ago, Cruise a holic said:

I think Faucci was trying to be gentle.  Listen to him today- and the other scientist.  Things change- I surely do not fault WHO for this virus.  I think our country did too little to late.  Listen to science- not feel good lay opinions.  Many people now have "cabin fever" but if we have a resurgence of the virus- things could get worse.    I cannot wait to cruise again, but will do so when it is  safe.  I can live without a manicure and haircut.

Oh come on - I listened to his statements in January.  If he knew the risk and was just trying to be "gentle" - then that is gross negligence to not tell us the truth.  Things have changed - and that's my point.  First, no masks, then masks.  All kinds of opinions from doctors and scientists - they don't all agree do they? I'm not picking on Fauci - just pointing out that the scientists and doctors have have changed their tune several times since January.

I wasn't blaming WHO for the virus happening, but they certainly did nothing to clamp down on China and warn the world back in late December.

[bouhunter]

28 minutes ago, Cruise a holic said:

I think Faucci was trying to be gentle.  Listen to him today- and the other scientist.  Things change- I surely do not fault WHO for this virus.  I think our country did too little to late.  Listen to science- not feel good lay opinions.  Many people now have "cabin fever" but if we have a resurgence of the virus- things could get worse.    I cannot wait to cruise again, but will do so when it is  safe.  I can live without a manicure and haircut.

I guess science isn't always right...…......

 

https://710wor.iheart.com/featured/mark-simone/content/2020-04-03-watch-dr-fauci-in-january-say-you-dont-need-to-worry-about-coronavirus/

[time4u2go]

29 minutes ago, Cruise a holic said:

I think Faucci was trying to be gentle.  Listen to him today- and the other scientist.  Things change- I surely do not fault WHO for this virus.  I think our country did too little to late.  Listen to science- not feel good lay opinions.  Many people now have "cabin fever" but if we have a resurgence of the virus- things could get worse.    I cannot wait to cruise again, but will do so when it is  safe.  I can live without a manicure and haircut.

Agreed.  The key is that things change, as you said.  As more was learned about the virus, the message changed, as it should, and as it will continue to.

[TheMastodon]

See below - the data (CDC) tells the story.  Not CNN (corona news network) or FOX 

 

I don't want anyone to die, but a large majority of deaths have been from nursing homes/assisted living communities - it's tragic.  But are we going to be scared of this for the rest of our lives?  There has never been a vaccine that wipes a Corona virus off the face of the earth!  Many of us get flu shots - great idea but it doesn't always work folks.  SARS, MERS, etc never had a vaccine hit the market.  Need to focus on protecting the venerable and the rest of us need to use good hygiene and build herd immunity.  If you want to stay inside your home - thats your choice!  

 

I still don't think cruising is a great idea until very thorough procedures are in place - immunity cards, better screening, etc etc.  Not even sure its possible to keep it off ships.  Who knows?  I am scared for the cruise/travel industry but at some point we have to roll with it.