Princess new health guidelines..will X follow suit!

[hcat]

Link to Cruise Critic  article was in our  e mail today.. covering Princess guidelines. It appears quite stringent,..wondering if Celebrity will follow suit...??????   

 

Not sure what amounts to a " underlying severe chronic medical condition".

 

EXCERPT:

 

New Health Guidelines

April 22, 2020

 

Dori Saltzman

Senior Editor

 

(10:35 a.m. EDT) -- Princess Cruises is detailing several new health protocols for its ships, the first in a series of new guidelines it expects to roll out when cruises return to service. Among the more noteworthy elements are possible legal penalties for anyone who is found to have falsified the pre-boarding medical questionnaire and restricting access to boarding for anyone with a severe chronic medical condition. 

The move follows that of Asia-based cruise line, Genting, which put in strict new health guidelines earlier this month.

"Our health monitoring, screening and operational protocols are designed to be both rigorous and flexible, and we are aggressively adapting to changes as they occur," Princess said in a statement listing the new guidelines.  

"We are working closely with public health officials, including the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization (WHO), as well as the Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA), to define and implement best practices to protect the health of our guests and crew as it relates to COVID-19."

The new protocols are divided into pre-cruise, embarkation and onboard. Many of the guidelines are a continuation of the protocols put into place in late February and early March.

Pre-Cruise

Princess Cruises will increase its global monitoring of COVID-19 outbreaks and will proactively cancel or modify itineraries to impacted areas.

The line will also maintain its policy of refusing boarding to booked travelers who meet a variety of criteria including anyone who has been in contact with a suspected or confirmed case of COVID-19; anyone suffering from a fever or flu-like symptoms prior to embarkation; and anyone with underlying severe chronic medical conditions.

 

Guests and crew members who meet these criteria will be unable to sail, with booked passengers receiving a full cruise credit or refund.

Embarkation

On embarkation day, cruisers can expect a robust health screening, starting with mandatory thermal scanning of all guests and crew. Anyone presenting with a fever or flu-like symptoms will be denied boarding, regardless of their recent travel history. All cruisers who are denied boarding due to sickness will be issued a full cruise credit or refund.

Cruisers will also be required to fill out a new health declaration prior to boarding specifically designed to screen for COVID-19. During the cruise, anyone found to have falsified their answers will be disembarked at the next port of call. Additionally, anyone who does not disclose symptoms of illness may face legal consequences............"

 

 

Link to full CC Article...https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5301/?et_cid=3327335&et_rid=16760876&et_referrer=NULL

Edited April 23, 2020 by hcat

[hcat]

One issue that jumps out to me,  is the statement made twice that if boarding is denied the  passenger will get a refund or cruise credit.   

 

If condition is chronic of what use will a credit be.?

If X follows this guideline, we would not book any more cruises!

[Georgia_Peaches]

I agree that the language of the new policy seems quite stringent.  Almost a knee-jerk reaction...I can only imagine that it will relax with time and lack of bookings...especially when they realize that lost bookings are going to other lines.  If Celebrity was to adopt similar measures, it would seem to me that they are going to have to become much more sophisticated with their technology...both in issuing refunds and monitoring guests...perhaps during the initial check-in process.   Agree, a FCC is useless for those with "chronic, pre-existing conditions".

[jelayne]

But from what I have read it does not require a doctors to say you have no underlying or chronic health conditions.  Some feel this is  more lenient than requiring a doctors statement. 

[Duanerice1]

Seems pretty common sense to me.  Probably should have been following guidelines similar to these all along.  Anyone sick with something that has the potential to be contagious should not be allowed to board.   

 

As for the chronic conditions, assuming they are not contagious then that's up to the traveler.

 

Just my 2 cents

[keesar]

25 minutes ago, jelayne said:

But from what I have read it does not require a doctors to say you have no underlying or chronic health conditions.  Some feel this is  more lenient than requiring a doctors statement. 

 

There is no mention of age or a doctor's note from Princess.    This appears to be more reasonable.   Also, if someone has an underlying severe chronic medical  condition, they probably should re-consider going on a cruise.

 

 With Celebrity, what if someone  does not have any of the conditions listed-- but what if their doctor refuses to complete the form?  

[Fouremco]

25 minutes ago, jelayne said:

But from what I have read it does not require a doctors to say you have no underlying or chronic health conditions.  Some feel this is  more lenient than requiring a doctors statement. 

No doctor's form, but you have to self identify on the new health declaration. "During the cruise, anyone found to have falsified their answers will be disembarked at the next port of call. Additionally, anyone who does not disclose symptoms of illness may face legal consequences." Whether these provisions would be sufficient to deter a passenger suffering from one of the conditions but determined to cruise remains to be seen.

 

7 minutes ago, keesar said:

With Celebrity, what if someone  does not have any of the conditions listed-- but what if their doctor refuses to complete the form?

I'd be looking for a new physician.

[bEwAbG]

54 minutes ago, hcat said:

One issue that jumps out to me,  is the statement made twice that if boarding is denied the  passenger will get a refund or cruise credit.   

 

If condition is chronic of what use will a credit be.?

If X follows this guideline, we would not book any more cruises!

 

It seems pretty obvious to me that someone who cannot use the credit because they have a chronic condition (meaning it will never go away) would get the refund option.  Someone who shows up to the port and is just temporarily sick may want to take the credit and cruise another time.

[bEwAbG]

The pre-screening stuff is fine but I don't really understand how this will prevent outbreaks if many people are asymptomatic for up to two weeks.  You could be fine on embarkation day but become symptomatic a few days into the cruise.   In the meantime, you've been spreading it around the ship.  Same thing with the crew.  If they're all still going to be living on top of one another, nothing has really changed.

[hcat]

Makes sense ( and this policy  is Princess not X) ...but not sure what X will do with all the FCCs that have already been issued PRIOR to their med note requirement?  Guess we will find out eventually. Chronic conditions do not usually  go away.

 

Read some place today that  certain high blood pressure meds are "bad " with this virus & obesity a big factor..

 

Looking forward to good news ahead!

We need some happy news!

 

[jelayne]

45 minutes ago, hcat said:

Makes sense ( and this policy  is Princess not X) ...but not sure what X will do with all the FCCs that have already been issued PRIOR to their med note requirement?  Guess we will find out eventually. Chronic conditions do not usually  go away.

 

Read some place today that  certain high blood pressure meds are "bad " with this virus & obesity a big factor..

 

Looking forward to good news ahead!

We need some happy news!

 

 
I don’t think at this point anyone has a clear idea of what the true risk factors are,

what the longer term  effects of the virus are or what existing drug, if any, helps the majority survive without severe consequences.  Unfortunately we live in a society that feels suing for any and everything so  cruise lines will have to protect themselves.  Sometimes s—- happens, just cuz.  No one intended it.

[WonderMan3]

This is the link to the Princess health advisory page. Nowhere can I find anything referencing underlying health conditions.

 

https://milled.com/princess-cruises/important-health-and-safety-updates-inside-wE8j4nOtQkZ8k537

[Babr]

1 hour ago, WonderMan3 said:

This is the link to the Princess health advisory page. Nowhere can I find anything referencing underlying health conditions.

 

https://milled.com/princess-cruises/important-health-and-safety-updates-inside-wE8j4nOtQkZ8k537

You have to click on the “Learn More “ button.  Then there is a link to updated health advisory. It says that any passenger or crew member with a chronic, severe underlying condition will not be able to sail. It applies to all ages. There are instructions to contact Princess prior to sailing if it applies to you. I suppose someone there will advise you if you’ll be allowed to sail, saving you the inconvenience of being denied at the port.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Babr

[ericosmith]

This is pretty much the same policy that was in effect when we boarded the Solstice on 3/10.

[cscurlock]

3 hours ago, bEwAbG said:

The pre-screening stuff is fine but I don't really understand how this will prevent outbreaks if many people are asymptomatic for up to two weeks.  You could be fine on embarkation day but become symptomatic a few days into the cruise.   In the meantime, you've been spreading it around the ship.  Same thing with the crew.  If they're all still going to be living on top of one another, nothing has really changed.

This is where the main failure is going to happen and there is no getting around this.  Once this happens they will have to get everyone off if the authorities will even let them.  After that you will have to deep clean the ship.  The only solution is to wait for the vaccine and vaccinate everyone.

[alcpa1]

I looked back at the wording that caught my eye....

underlying chronic and severe medical conditions.... One may have a chronic illness that is anything from newly diagnosed to fully under control to not severe.  These parameters need a physicians evaluation.

Just saying.......

 

[BEAV]

Seems straightforward to me. And if this clears the over 70 physician sign off, it’s huge.

 

Whaddya bet this has already been blessed by CDC in virtual meetings with Princess? 

 

[Miaminice]

Regardless of any FCC issue or if people will actually tell the truth on the questionnaires, I question the real use of the whole regulation. And the primary goal should be to avoid Covid-19. In this regard is it’s basically useless.

 

On embarkation day a passenger could be a few days before outbreak of any symptoms. According to recent studies, those are the days the passenger would be at the peak of being infectious. Within two days, so until anything could actually be detected, many more could be infected.

 

The second scenario could be a passenger of the roughly 43% of asymptomatic cases. According to similar studies, an infected individual, and those are mean numbers, is infectious for a few days before outbreak of symptoms and roughly 8 days after outbreak of symptoms. So 43% of cases an individual could be infectious over let’s say approximately 10 days - without even knowing he or she was infected.
 

In cruise terms: a passenger could unknowingly and undetectably be a super spreader for the length of an entire cruise.

 

And those scientific facts unfortunately make me believe that any safe cruising within reason will only be possible after a vaccine or a cure has been found.

 

Will this be the way it’s going to be handled? Nobody knows! However, if it’s not, cruise ships can be a factor of creating an endless pandemic.

[az_tchr]

The big difference is the word "severe" regarding underlying conditions.  What the heck does that mean?  A lawyer would have fun in court with that one.  The statement seems to encompass the knowledge about covid19 learned since March about younger people also having more severe reactions if underlying conditions existed.

I suspect that it will be a while before cruising resumes and that both the requirements to board and the experience on board will change from both pre covid and as suggested today.

[Mark_T]

Agreed, the ‘severe’ component of the rules needs definition and examples...

[Ronin23]

9 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

I agree that the language of the new policy seems quite stringent.  Almost a knee-jerk reaction...I can only imagine that it will relax with time and lack of bookings...especially when they realize that lost bookings are going to other lines.  If Celebrity was to adopt similar measures, it would seem to me that they are going to have to become much more sophisticated with their technology...both in issuing refunds and monitoring guests...perhaps during the initial check-in process.   Agree, a FCC is useless for those with "chronic, pre-existing conditions".

If you have a chronic, pre existing condition then why would you book knowing the policy?

[Mark_T]

I've read through the Princess web site and I can't actually find any reference to the "underlying severe chronic medical conditions" requirement mentioned in the CC article... Does anyone have a link that shows this limitation on the Princess site?

 

Even if it is there somewhere, I still think they are using the wrong language, severe refers to the intensity of something, usually on a range, i.e. mild, moderate or severe.

The term “severe” is not the same as serious, for example,  a headache can be severe, but insignificant from a medical perspective. Seriousness seems to be the right factor to be considering, not severity. 

[Mark_T]

2 minutes ago, Ronin23 said:

If you have a chronic, pre existing condition then why would you book knowing the policy?

 

Firstly, many people with chronic conditions already booked before this was a consideration, so this amounts to a change in T&C for them, and secondly 'chronic' just means 'long term' it does not imply either a degree of seriousness or severity.

 

I suspect that there are very few people over 70 that don't have at least one chronic condition, but that doesn't mean the condition has any impact on their daily lives nor that it even requires medication.

 

These words have very specific meanings, and I don't get the sense that they are being used correctly in many cases.

[verizon]

The best solution is Test and Quarantine all cruisers for 14 days before they get embark for cruising.

Same as ALL CREW members. 

It sound crazy but that is the safest way before we have cure or vaccine.

Edited April 24, 2020 by verizon

[Mark_T]

10 minutes ago, verizon said:

The best solution is Test and Quarantine all cruisers for 14 days before they get embark for cruising.

Same as ALL CREW members. 

It sound crazy but that is the safest way before we have cure or vaccine.

 

... and then don't let them off the ship in any ports? ... or just sail in circles and let them look at a port through binoculars... ?

 

... and of course you'd have to quarantine them locally to the departure port so just add 2 weeks to everyone's vacation time... ?

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Mark_T