Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[JeanieC,Aston]

11 hours ago, farmermd said:

can you please explain to me how me not wearing a seatbelt puts everyone else at risk?

I’ll try......
The very fact that you seem to be a risk taker puts everyone else at risk....from you.

[TeeRick]

12 hours ago, nocl said:

not much of an issue for those that live outside florida. more of a problem for florida residents

Yes for now in FL. Don't you think some other states will also do something similar? Overall it it comes across as message against vaccines to some.  I know it is a personal freedom issue.  

[TeeRick]

More at home and other COVID tests approved that will hopefully help with the requirements for cruises.  This one is a serial (multi-day) test for asymptomatic screening.

 

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/948568?src=wnl_edit_tpal&uac=370300SV&impID=3288391&faf=1

[TeeRick]

The Astra Zeneca vaccine blood clot (thrombocytopenia) issue - more data on the possible mechanism.

 

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/948560?src=wnl_edit_tpal&uac=370300SV&impID=3288391&faf=1#vp_1

[cantstopingcruising]

14 hours ago, farmermd said:

can you please explain to me how me not wearing a seatbelt puts everyone else at risk?

 

Where I live, the police would have a field day with you. The fines you would get for no seat belt and no mask in an indoor public place would fill their coffers very nicely. You say you are a retailer. I am surprised that you are not losing customers. I wouldn't enter a store where there are unmasked people. Nor would anyone else that I know.

 

I don't want to attack you personally. But I do think you have issues.

[Homosassa]

Close reading of the Desantis'  Executive Order shows it to be a masterpiece of appearing to support total banning of Covid 19 screening by proof of vaccination status. However, it has two big loopholes that allows just that while placating a certain group of citizens. 

 

Section 1 from Desantis' Executive Order on Vaccination Passports contain a key few words that most  have missed.  

 

This section prohibits Florida State agencies from providing information to third parties for the purpose of proving an individual's Covid 19 vaccination status. It does not prohibit Florida residents from obtaining their individual information and then providing the information to a third party to obtain a Covid 19 passport or to prove proof of vaccinations. 

 

Section 5 also states that no business is prohibited from establishing Covid 19 screening procedures to ensure public health and that a private individual has the right to request health (vaccination) information for themselves.

 

Attached is a link to the Executive Order for those who wish to read it for themselves:

 

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf 

 

As far as cruiselines not being able to request proof of vaccination before cruising out if Florida ports, it may cause some problems at the pier. However, there is a work around. We have to remember that once on board a ship, one is no longer in Florida. 

 

During booking, if one is told that only vaccinated passengers are allowed and proof of vaccination is required, the ship may simply do the vaccination verification as one's foot hits the deck of the ship. No proof, one is escorted off the ship by security.

 

Of course this is an unnecessary hassle for the cruiseline and I can see where some other US ports may be used instead of Florida (Mobile, New Orleans, Galveston come to mind).

Edited April 4, 2021 by Homosassa

[Ken the cruiser]

On 7/9/2020 at 6:14 PM, Ken the cruiser said:

We sure hope so. We are in our late 60s, and had the measles and mumps when we were little, but we just got a MMR vaccine at our local pharmacy because everything we read was really positive towards reducing the affects of COVID if we get it, which so far we've been able to avoid. But we figure it's going to take a readily available vaccine before cruising will start up again.

 

So far we've heard positive things about AstraZenica and now Pfizer, who are both hoping to start distributing a vaccine in the October time frame if all goes well in their stage 3 testing starting later this month and, of course for US folks, CDC (which I now know very much so that the FDA also plays a very big part in the approval process) subsequently gives them the go ahead. Here's hoping to their success as we really miss going on cruises!!!

Hi folks,

 

Well, this thread has had a long 9 month run and I for one over here in the peanut gallery have learned more about vaccines and the varying aspects of their evolutionary process than I ever thought possible. But with the wide variety of cruise lines starting back up in the next few months, the CDC Technical Instructions (Phase 2A) being released for the cruise ships to use in preparation to hopefully start sailing out of US ports again, and with over 3+ million shots being administered every day in the US with more to come, I think it's time for me to let this thread sail out to sea.

 

But before I personally sign off as the OP on this thread, I would just like to thank ALL of its contributors over the last 9 months, with a very special thank you to @TeeRick, @markeb, @cangelmd and @nocl for sharing your vast array of knowledge as it has definitely been the guiding light that many of us have followed until the "light at the end of the tunnel" was bright enough for us to find our own unique way back to cruising, whatever that path might entail. 

 

Happy cruising!!

 

Ken 

[Pinboy]

14 hours ago, farmermd said:

been at crowded rallys

UUMM-- I wonder for Who or what Protest ???  

 

 

[TeeRick]

17 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Hi folks,

 

Well, this thread has had a long 9 month run and I for one over here in the peanut gallery have learned more about vaccines and the varying aspects of their evolutionary process than I ever thought possible. But with the wide variety of cruise lines starting back up in the next few months, the CDC Technical Instructions (Phase 2A) being released for the cruise ships to use in preparation to hopefully start sailing out of US ports again, and with over 3+ million shots being administered every day in the US with more to come, I think it's time for me to let this thread sail out to sea.

 

But before I personally sign off as the OP on this thread, I would just like to thank ALL of its contributors over the last 9 months, with a very special thank you to @TeeRick, @markeb, @cangelmd and @nocl for sharing your vast array of knowledge as it has definitely been the guiding light that many of us have followed until the "light at the end of the tunnel" was bright enough for us to find our own unique way back to cruising, whatever that path might entail. 

 

Happy cruising!!

 

Ken 

Ken,

Vaccines are the Light at the End of the Tunnel.   Question answered.  Your thread has done a great service to all of us interesting in cruising again.

[TrulyBlonde]

The best and most factual thread on all of Cruise Critic. Some of the other Boards are so nasty. If they came over here, they would realize what a lovely group of passengers Celebrity brings to their ships.

Happy Easter and Happy Sailing to all. Thanks to all.

[larry_s_taco]

Thank you Ken. This has been very educational and enlightening. Great job of keeping things on topic.

Happy cruising. 

[TeeRick]

We could perhaps start a new but perhaps more limited thread that focuses on the medicine and science of vaccines, antiviral drugs, etc.  and how it all relates to cruising.  For those of us that enjoy this discussion.  Hopefully some of the same experts will join that one.  

[Homosassa]

4 minutes ago, TrulyBlonde said:

The best and most factual thread on all of Cruise Critic. Some of the other Boards are so nasty. If they came over here, they would realize what a lovely group of passengers Celebrity brings to their ships.

Happy Easter and Happy Sailing to all. Thanks to all.

Like any other business, each cruise line has a targeted market demographic the character of which is reflected in the posts for the different cruiseline forums.

 

We have been able to have this thread on this forum because of the market demographic of Celebrity.

 

This will carry over into the plans each line may develop to restart cruising from US ports. Some lines face a nearly impossible task of trying to put controls in place. Other lines will have passengers that understand the need for controls.

[cangelmd]

1 hour ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Hi folks,

 

Well, this thread has had a long 9 month run and I for one over here in the peanut gallery have learned more about vaccines and the varying aspects of their evolutionary process than I ever thought possible. But with the wide variety of cruise lines starting back up in the next few months, the CDC Technical Instructions (Phase 2A) being released for the cruise ships to use in preparation to hopefully start sailing out of US ports again, and with over 3+ million shots being administered every day in the US with more to come, I think it's time for me to let this thread sail out to sea.

 

But before I personally sign off as the OP on this thread, I would just like to thank ALL of its contributors over the last 9 months, with a very special thank you to @TeeRick, @markeb, @cangelmd and @nocl for sharing your vast array of knowledge as it has definitely been the guiding light that many of us have followed until the "light at the end of the tunnel" was bright enough for us to find our own unique way back to cruising, whatever that path might entail. 

 

Happy cruising!!

 

Ken 

Happy cruising to you as well Ken - I'd really enjoy lifting a Kir Royale IRL with a fellow Alabama cruiser one day during a sailaway. Here's to restarting soon!

[Ken the cruiser]

17 minutes ago, cangelmd said:

Happy cruising to you as well Ken - I'd really enjoy lifting a Kir Royale IRL with a fellow Alabama cruiser one day during a sailaway. Here's to restarting soon!

Sounds like a great idea!

[puppycanducruise]

A very educational thread.

Thank  you.

[nocl]

16 hours ago, farmermd said:

can you please explain to me how me not wearing a seatbelt puts everyone else at risk?

Since you seem to be taking the view that you can ignore certain laws such as seat belts, or actions directed by public health departments under laws during a health emergency.

 

Do you expect your insurance company to pay for any medical care necessary if you got in an accident while violating the seat belt law?  

 

Would you expect your local hospital and medical professionals to treat you if you developed a serious case of Covid as a result of ignoring available protective measures?   Would you expect insurance to pay for such treatment?

 

Lets take it one step further since you seem to take the view that you can pick and choose what laws to follow and since you own a business.  Would you call the police and press charges against someone taking their "right" for free expression to paint graffiti on your business?

 

How about if someone decided that theft was a law that they chose not to follow, would you just let them take things from your business?

 

To quote Eldridge Cleaver

 

'There is no more neutrality in the world. You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem.'

 

 

[KWW88]

16 hours ago, farmermd said:

I drive 30-40k miles per year for the last 30+ Years and have only been stopped once for seatbelt violation and then only got a warning. 
 

and you are right - not getting the vaccine. Been on a plain, been in restaurants, been at crowded rallys, run a retail business- haven’t worn a face diaper and haven’t been sick. Not afraid of any of this - living my life as normal as possible in this new normalcy. 

I am thinking you may not like red lights either, so you just drive on through, no seatbelt and and all.

[K.T.B.]

On 4/3/2021 at 10:23 AM, TeeRick said:

It is just so disappointing that vaccines have become such a political issue.  No surprise I guess.  If FL bans Vaccine Passports but then the CDC requires proof of vaccination to cruise from the US, where the heck are we?   It seems the governor is working at cross purposes to get cruising going again.  Would RCG cruise lines home-ported in FL fall under this order for all of their employees?  How does this order help to create a safe cruising environment?

 

"The Republican governor had previously announced his intent to issue an order banning so-called “vaccine passports.” His action also barred any government agency in Florida from issuing such documentation for the purpose of providing proof of vaccinations."

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/florida-governor-issues-order-banning-businesses-from-requiring-vaccine-passports

 

His order means diddly-squat if it becomes federal.  And considering it would most likely come from the CDC, expect the cruise industry to exert a ton of pressure on the governor of FL.

[K.T.B.]

23 hours ago, docsneeze said:

    Unfortunately, you are mistaken.  Most recent Pfizer data shows 91% efficacy 6 months out.  Great but not 100%.  Less transmissable but not perfect.  

   Unvaccinated people can also be asymptomatic.   So best to have everyone vaccinated.  Newer rapid tests about 95% reliable but PCR best.

    Need to protect ourselves and others.  That is essentially the government mandate in which policy should be made. Use of vaccine passports may reduce forgery by those unscrupulous enough to attempt it but I am OK with use of plain Vax cards.

    Apologize for tangent of discussing my son who is 3 but many of you have been unable to see.family because of Covid fears.  The vaccines now allow those visits to take place safely in some instances.  If nothing else, FAMILY is the most important reason for all of us to vaccinate.

 

That statement I bolded is the key to all of this.  Yeah, this is a travel site where we talk about going around the world on various adventures, but when it downs to it, family is comes first.  Period.

[hcat]

17 hours ago, terrydtx said:

Hcat thank you. I am glad your daughter beat it, I am a prostate cancer survivor who got very lucky.

We never say she beat it,.but has  been given another joyful day!

Congrats to you too......went through several yrs of colon cancer with my dad... he did quite well for many years..

 

Hope everyone does not forget their mammograms, colonoscopy appts and other health care during Covid..and all vaccines they need.

 

Agree with docsneeze and  KTB....Family First!

Edited April 4, 2021 by hcat

[K.T.B.]

20 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Not sure if this specific CDC "Media Statement" has been posted yet, but to those folks that think otherwise, vaccines will very much play a BIG role when it comes to cruises starting back up.  

 

COVID-19 vaccination efforts will be critical in the safe resumption of passenger operations. As more people are fully vaccinated, the phased approach allows CDC to incorporate these advancements into planning for resumption of cruise ship travel when it is safe to do so. CDC recommends that all eligible port personnel and travelers (passengers and crew) get a COVID-19 vaccine when one is available to them.

 

CDC Issues Next Phase of the Conditional Sail Order for Cruise Ship Operators | CDC Online Newsroom | CDC

 

Yes, CDC may sometimes act like big brother, but sometimes that's a good thing, especially during times like these when there is such a devastating virus as the one we've all been dealing with globally for well over a year now. So, if we now have to wait for the various phases of the CDC plan to be completed, we're cool with that as I'm pretty sure everyone involved from the cruise lines to the port authorities and all organizations in between will now use this roadmap to continue to do everything they can to get us back to cruising ASAP. As far as an estimated timetable from someone over in the peanut gallery, I'm guessing Celebrity will complete the following tasks by:

 

Phase 2A - Voyage Preparation - by the end of April

Phase 2B - Simulated (trial) Passenger Voyages - by the end of May

Phase 3 - Conditional Sailing Certification - by the end of June

Phase 4 - Restricted Passenger Voyages - starting the beginning of July

 

Of course, if anyone has different estimates, please feel free to share. BTW I just love this image @paulh84posted on a different thread about the TIs.

 

 

I think you're being slightly optimistic in the time line, but not far off.  I would think 6 weeks between each phase would be more doable, pushing phase 4 to end of August.  And that's me being my most optimistic that everything goes exceedingly well!  

 

I am still sticking with my guess of late September/October for cruising to be back at reduced capacity on ship, full 100% by the end of the year.  Regardless, I firmly believe people will be cruising out of US ports this year.

[K.T.B.]

13 hours ago, farmermd said:

I’m just showing the hypocrisy - you know, similar to vaccines. The left leaning states say the minority community needs priority in receiving the jab because they are at higher risk. And what do you you need for a vaccine? Yup an ID. But yet these same left leaning states say the minority community is too stupid to get an ID to vote. So my assumption now is that once everyone in the minority community has shown their ID to get the jab, we can now require the vaccine passport as the ID to vote! Wow that was easy. 

 

Who gives a flying F about left leaning, right leaning...  THIS VIRUS HOLDS NO POLITICAL VIEW WHATSOEVER!  It infects people regardless of their political leanings!!  JFC, how is this still an issue with nearly 570,000 people dead within the US?

 

Stop making it political!

[KWW88]

11 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Who gives a flying F about left leaning, right leaning...  THIS VIRUS HOLDS NO POLITICAL VIEW WHATSOEVER!  It infects people regardless of their political leanings!!  JFC, how is this still an issue with nearly 570,000 people dead within the US?

 

Stop making it political!

I am new here, but from reading the posts, seems to me that this farmer person, enjoys getting folks riled up with his nonsense.

[Charles4515]

2 minutes ago, KWW88 said:

I am new here, but from reading the posts, seems to me that this farmer person, enjoys getting folks riled up with his nonsense.

 

It is called trolling. When they said they don't wear seatbelts it was obvious. Probably none that they posted is true. Likely they are vaccinated.