New vaccine

[yorkshirephil]

20 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Then who provided the oft quoted figures that the Biontech vaccine had 90% efficacy after 1 jab and 94'1% after the 2nd. 

Did someone hack into the MHRA system?

The figures quoted are from clinical trials, the data can be accessed on the Pfizer website.

[terrierjohn]

Just now, yorkshirephil said:

The figures quoted are from clinical trials, the data can be accessed on the Pfizer website.

So why is Pfizer now supposedly putting out the statement quoted by Snowhill which seems to indicate that the 90% efficacy reached after 1 jab is not valid?

[arlowood]

1 hour ago, Snow Hill said:

It appears Pfizer don’t agree with JVT and governments plan for moving the doses out to 12 weeks apart as no testing has been done on that basis. This is a very risky strategy by the Government it would appear. 

 

“Pfizer said in a statement that decisions on dosing are up to health authorities, but that there's no data to show how the shot works if people don't get their second injection on time.

"The safety and efficacy of the vaccine has not been evaluated on different dosing schedules as the majority of trial participants received the second dose within the window specified in the study design," Pfizer and BioNTech said.”

Yes - I am a participant in the ongoing trial of the Oxford vaccine and I can confirm a couple of points that have arisen in the discussions above.

Firstly, in my cohort - the over 70's, we were given 2 doses of vaccine or placebo 4 weeks apart. In the overall trial there were some participants in other cohorts who were only given one dose but no mention of any dosing regime that went beyond 4 weeks for the second dose for those that were in the 2 dose group.

Secondly we were provided with home test kits that required us to perform a test on a weekly basis and send the sample for evaluation. We were also required to complete a weekly questionnaire about our movements and activities on a weekly basis - also if we developed any of the COVID symptoms. So on that basis the Oxford trial could be seen as a bit more rigorous than the Pfizer BioNtech but I'm sure there are arguments both ways on the means of defining efficacy.

 

My dilemma will come when and if I am called forward to receive a jab. At that point I can contact the study organisers to "unblind" my status to find out whether I was given the vaccine or the placebo. Thereafter I will have to decide how to proceed if it turns out that I was in fact given the Oxford vaccine. If I was on the placebo then there is no argument - I will opt to be jabbed.

[yorkshirephil]

11 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

So why is Pfizer now supposedly putting out the statement quoted by Snowhill which seems to indicate that the 90% efficacy reached after 1 jab is not valid?

People will believe what they want to believe regardless as to what sources they came from, their choice. The figures quoted are from statistical evidence during clinical trials, as I keep pointing out; only time will tell. 

[yorkshirephil]

8 minutes ago, arlowood said:

Yes - I am a participant in the ongoing trial of the Oxford vaccine and I can confirm a couple of points that have arisen in the discussions above.

Firstly, in my cohort - the over 70's, we were given 2 doses of vaccine or placebo 4 weeks apart. In the overall trial there were some participants in other cohorts who were only given one dose but no mention of any dosing regime that went beyond 4 weeks for the second dose for those that were in the 2 dose group.

Secondly we were provided with home test kits that required us to perform a test on a weekly basis and send the sample for evaluation. We were also required to complete a weekly questionnaire about our movements and activities on a weekly basis - also if we developed any of the COVID symptoms. So on that basis the Oxford trial could be seen as a bit more rigorous than the Pfizer BioNtech but I'm sure there are arguments both ways on the means of defining efficacy.

 

My dilemma will come when and if I am called forward to receive a jab. At that point I can contact the study organisers to "unblind" my status to find out whether I was given the vaccine or the placebo. Thereafter I will have to decide how to proceed if it turns out that I was in fact given the Oxford vaccine. If I was on the placebo then there is no argument - I will opt to be jabbed.

Thanks for the update. Facts are always generously received.

[yorkshirephil]

54 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

This doesn't surprise me, I was amazed when it was announced that the Pfizer vaccine second dose was to be extended from 3 to 12 weeks. Unless there is scientific rationale backed up by evidence I don't see how the government can justify the change. The pharma industry is committed to Good Manufacturing Procedures which are quite stringent, once a drug master file is submitted it is a mammoth and costly task to have even minor changes made. I would be surprised if there was enough wiggle room in the dosage parameters to make this change without MHRA reapproval. If the parameters were set so wide why state a 3 week interval if 12 weeks was acceptable and the vaccine could be spread out. I bet Pfizer are glad they have got indemnity from legal action if there are any issues in months/years to come.

I found this from a New Scientist report, the full report is interesting and and gives some good general info.

It’s a two-shot vaccine, so what happens if people miss their second shot? Is a single shot still protective?
Two shots are needed, and the second shot is required to attain immunity. The gap between doses in the trial ranged between 19 and 42 days. Only 2 per cent of people in the trial missed their second dose so it isn’t entirely clear what happens under those circumstances.

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2261805-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine/#ixzz6iCGyxJCo

[grapau27]

[Snow Hill]

A further statement from Pfizer on the proposals 

 

https://www.axios.com/pfizer-single-dose-data-716702dd-324f-42b9-b88d-07df43ca198a.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100

[davecttr]

Some further info on the rollout of the Oxford vaccine from the BBC, apparently there are millions of doses already in the country but the problem is they don't have the 'bottles' (vials) to put them in and then they have to be batched and each batch certified. this is the bottleneck 🤔

[tring]

21 minutes ago, davecttr said:

Some further info on the rollout of the Oxford vaccine from the BBC, apparently there are millions of doses already in the country but the problem is they don't have the 'bottles' (vials) to put them in and then they have to be batched and each batch certified. this is the bottleneck 🤔

 

Does that mean they are put into vials over here, or have I misunderstood that?  I had assumed that all that would be done when they are manufactured.

Edited December 31, 2020 by tring

[davecttr]

8 minutes ago, tring said:

 

Does that mean they are put into vials over here, or have I misunderstood that?  I had assumed that all that would be done when they are manufactured.

Apparently it is produced in batches so perhaps they keep the batches in giant tubs in the fridge until 'bottling' time. 

 

According to this Vaccine arms race: How the competition for a Covid jab is heating up | Evening Standard there were only 200 million vials available in the world when the article was written.

 

also the wrong sort of sand and a shortage of sharks livers, honest, I presume they have a good supply of legs of newt or is it eyes, plenty of these as well 🦇

[grapau27]

[Beckett]

That’s funny and lovely Graham. Cheered me up no end.

 

Happy New Year to you all.

 

With best wishes and hopes and prayers for 2021.

 

Jane

X

[grapau27]

17 minutes ago, Beckett said:

That’s funny and lovely Graham. Cheered me up no end.

 

Happy New Year to you all.

 

With best wishes and hopes and prayers for 2021.

 

Jane

X

Thanks Jane I'm pleased it cheered you up 

Happy New Year to you and your family.

Graham.

[P&O SUE]

I have some exciting news although I feel a bit embarrassed. I’ve been able to book a Covid vaccine as I work for the NHS. I really feel my parents should get it first but I’ve been offered it because of my heart condition. It’s 50 minutes away so I’ve deliberated about it but have decided I will have it although it’s a bit of a rush to get there - I’ve booked it for next Wednesday.

[AnnieC]

No need to feel embarrassed, Sue, that's excellent news for you. Enjoy it!😂

[Eddie99]

Lucky you 💉 

 

No jealousy from me.  I think there are lots of people who should be in the queue before me, NHS staff and school staff among the first.  I’m fortunate in being a healthy person, retired and able to shield - I’ll count my blessings with that for a few months whilst the people we really rely on get protected.

(That doesn’t give our alleged government carte blanche to make a horlicks of the vaccine roll out though)

[Selbourne]

7 minutes ago, P&O SUE said:

I have some exciting news although I feel a bit embarrassed. I’ve been able to book a Covid vaccine as I work for the NHS. I really feel my parents should get it first but I’ve been offered it because of my heart condition. It’s 50 minutes away so I’ve deliberated about it but have decided I will have it although it’s a bit of a rush to get there - I’ve booked it for next Wednesday.

No need to feel embarrassed. If I worked in the health service I would get mine as soon as it was offered. The only good news that I have had is that because I am a registered carer for my disabled wife, I move up from group 8 to group 6, but I fear that still means I will be waiting until the second half of next year. 

[P&O SUE]

8 minutes ago, AnnieC said:

No need to feel embarrassed, Sue, that's excellent news for you. Enjoy it!😂

 

7 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

Lucky you 💉 

 

No jealousy from me.  I think there are lots of people who should be in the queue before me, NHS staff and school staff among the first.  I’m fortunate in being a healthy person, retired and able to shield - I’ll count my blessings with that for a few months whilst the people we really rely on get protected.

(That doesn’t give our alleged government carte blanche to make a horlicks of the vaccine roll out though)

Thank you both, I just think my parents should be done sooner. Hopefully in the next few weeks. However if I didn’t take it one of my colleagues would have! Plus my husband works in a warehouse and I do worry he’ll bring it home to me! 

[zap99]

22 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

Lucky you 💉 

 

No jealousy from me.  I think there are lots of people who should be in the queue before me, NHS staff and school staff among the first.  I’m fortunate in being a healthy person, retired and able to shield - I’ll count my blessings with that for a few months whilst the people we really rely on get protected.

(That doesn’t give our alleged government carte blanche to make a horlicks of the vaccine roll out though)

I don't think our government are alleged , or are making a Horlicks. EU won't even approve it untill late February. Germans MEP reported to be chriticising them for dragging their heels and praising UK for their speedy approval. Don't know the German for Horlicks.

Edited December 31, 2020 by zap99

[P&O SUE]

3 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

No need to feel embarrassed. If I worked in the health service I would get mine as soon as it was offered. The only good news that I have had is that because I am a registered carer for my disabled wife, I move up from group 8 to group 6, but I fear that still means I will be waiting until the second half of next year. 

Thank you Selbourne, seeing ambulances queuing up outside my local hospital made my mind up quickly!

I’ve heard from people who’ve already had it that it’s well organised and you have to stay for 15 minutes afterwards  to make sure you don’t have an allergic reaction.

[grapau27]

7 minutes ago, P&O SUE said:

 

Thank you both, I just think my parents should be done sooner. Hopefully in the next few weeks. However if I didn’t take it one of my colleagues would have! Plus my husband works in a warehouse and I do worry he’ll bring it home to me! 

No one deserves it more than our NHS workers like you Sue.

Stay safe.

Happy New Year.

[zap99]

3 minutes ago, P&O SUE said:

Thank you Selbourne, seeing ambulances queuing up outside my local hospital made my mind up quickly!

I’ve heard from people who’ve already had it that it’s well organised and you have to stay for 15 minutes afterwards  to make sure you don’t have an allergic reaction.

Good luck to you Sue. Getting the vaccine into arms so soon after approval is a plus. If they sit you down for 15 mins, time for a nice Horlicks.🤣

[molecrochip]

22 minutes ago, P&O SUE said:

 

Thank you both, I just think my parents should be done sooner. Hopefully in the next few weeks. However if I didn’t take it one of my colleagues would have! Plus my husband works in a warehouse and I do worry he’ll bring it home to me! 

Getting people to have it in risk order was never going to be perfect, but I look at the bigger picture.

Every person who has the jab is one less person who is at risk, one less person who is likely to spread the virus, one step closer to us all being safer. So you might not feel like you deserve it so soon, but by having it you are helping everyone out a bit

[kalos]

44 minutes ago, P&O SUE said:

I have some exciting news although I feel a bit embarrassed. I’ve been able to book a Covid vaccine as I work for the NHS. I really feel my parents should get it first but I’ve been offered it because of my heart condition. It’s 50 minutes away so I’ve deliberated about it but have decided I will have it although it’s a bit of a rush to get there - I’ve booked it for next Wednesday.

 

So pleased for you Sue, you go get it, as been said one person less to worry about .