The Debbie Downers have been right all along

[iancal]

Our friends in Australia (Brisbane and Adelaide)  are most certainly not locked down and have not been for some time.  They keep sending us photos of their domestic travels.  Our understanding is states or certain areas within states can get shut down IF there is a covid outbreak no matter how small. 

 

There is now a travel bubble between OZ and NZ.

 

One thing for certain.....you cannot always believe what you read on Facebook or see on 24 hour news stations.

Edited April 10, 2021 by iancal

[bennybear]

Our Australian friends have been able to get together, had a normal Christmas, can shop without masks, have a wedding.  But they do a sharp short lockdown if anything is discovered.   I wish our governments had their vision, instead of the roller coaster we're on! 

[rkacruiser]

12 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

The 24 hour news cycle begun by CNN has NOT been a good thing for the nation or the world IMHO.

 

Yet, at times, their reporting has been has been so significantly vivid, that I wonder, has that had an impact on the thinking and beliefs of some of our countrymen?  I refer to the coverage of the events of January 6, 2021.  

[iancal]

We often find much better coverage on BBC and Al Jezeera.  More news, less entertainment news from some other news channels.

Edited April 11, 2021 by iancal

[nocl]

10 hours ago, iancal said:

Our friends in Australia (Brisbane and Adelaide)  are most certainly not locked down and have not been for some time.  They keep sending us photos of their domestic travels.  Our understanding is states or certain areas within states can get shut down IF there is a covid outbreak no matter how small. 

 

There is now a travel bubble between OZ and NZ.

 

One thing for certain.....you cannot always believe what you read on Facebook or see on 24 hour news stations.

The travel bubble between the 2 starts on April 19.

[AtleeH]

On 3/10/2021 at 6:10 AM, ski ww said:

We also don't feel safe cruising before summer 2022. Stay healthy.

I will feel safe very shortly, the 21st of this month.  The 21st of April will be 2 weeks after my 2nd Moderna shot.  I should be fully immunized by then.

[Gracie115]

12 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Yet, at times, their reporting has been has been so significantly vivid, that I wonder, has that had an impact on the thinking and beliefs of some of our countrymen?  I refer to the coverage of the events of January 6, 2021.  

Oh it undoubtedly had an impact on that event....  as it does in any true "breaking news" event...problem is the other 364 days of constant blah blah blah news coverage of anything and everything....mostly full of opinion and not straight news.  That's not journalism.  I studied Journalism at college...gave it up when I realized I just couldn't write a straight news story......lo and behold it didn't matter because pretty much no "journalists" today can either.... 

[rkacruiser]

12 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

That's not journalism.  I studied Journalism at college...gave it up when I realized I just couldn't write a straight news story......lo and behold it didn't matter because pretty much no "journalists" today can either.... 

 

I appreciate your post.  And, where does this situation leave what our countrymen to believe or to know?  

 

If there was ever a time in American history that our populace needed "critical thinking" skills, it is now.  But, in the "best interest" of our recent adult citizens, being able to "pass tests" that have nothing to do with critical thinking skills when they were in school,  knowing something about STEM, but not the liberal arts or learning to critically think, was important.  So, now, we have "debates" about what is "fake news" and  what is real news, real journalism.  We have millions in this country in 2021 that cannot determine the difference.  

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

If there was ever a time in American history that our populace needed "critical thinking" skills, it is now.  But, in the "best interest" of our recent adult citizens, being able to "pass tests" that have nothing to do with critical thinking skills when they were in school,  knowing something about STEM, but not the liberal arts or learning to critically think, was important.  So, now, we have "debates" about what is "fake news" and  what is real news, real journalism.  We have millions in this country in 2021 that cannot determine the difference. 

 

While I can't disagree with the effect, I have a very different opinion as to the reason or cause. I feel media is largely to blame, and I don't necessarily mean the news media.

 

Before, if one had crackpot theories to share, chances are that the limited number of those exposed to them either didn't buy in or ignored them. But the internet and social media channels amplify the audience for such things to the nth degree so that any crazy person can find others who agree with them, no matter how wacky the theory -- the return of flat earthers, Jewish space lasers starting forest fires, ISIS, antifa -- it's mind boggling.

 

I also blame in part those (including parents) who have extolled the values of being contrarian/different/not "part of the crowd", and media and films that glorify "outcast" culture: How many times have we seen TV shows about the "rule-breaking" cop or surgeon or investigator who defies authority -- and always ends up being right? There is a strange pull to be part of an "alt reality", an outsider group.

 

Finally, I think there has been a notable decrease in trust in public institutions -- at times rightly so -- coupled with increased polarization of opinion. But I think it has gone too far. We've just about reached the point where if Mr. Red says the grass is green, Mr. Blue says it is yellow. And the media amplify and solidify these differences to the point where one cannot allow a compromise because it seems "weak" or means admitting you might have been wrong.

 

I don't really blame the schools. My son got a good STEM education in HS and college but he also learned critical thinking skills. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by cruisemom42

[Gracie115]

10 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I appreciate your post.  And, where does this situation leave what our countrymen to believe or to know?  

 

If there was ever a time in American history that our populace needed "critical thinking" skills, it is now.  But, in the "best interest" of our recent adult citizens, being able to "pass tests" that have nothing to do with critical thinking skills when they were in school,  knowing something about STEM, but not the liberal arts or learning to critically think, was important.  So, now, we have "debates" about what is "fake news" and  what is real news, real journalism.  We have millions in this country in 2021 that cannot determine the difference.  

 

Teachers, here in Florida anyway, teach to the "tests" and you are correct so much is missed in education that way.  Much has been said about Florida's governor here but one thing he has done that is a very good thing is require that every student take and pass a Civics class before graduating high school.  It is amazing to me the number of people who don't know how a president is elected, how a law is passed, what the 3 branches of government are...etc etc.   This and yes, the inability to critically think about any subject makes it impossible to properly analyze any topic.

 

I do agree with cruisemom42 that social media is also largely at blame....however "social media" is really just an extension of the news media in many ways.  With every news outlet advising viewers to check their FB or Instagram or Twitter page for information......

 

Getting back to a cruising topic, I wonder when the powers that be will sit down together and figure out a way forward that will work for the CDC and the cruiselines. Threats and suits I don't think are the right answer.

[rkacruiser]

13 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

Teachers, here in Florida anyway, teach to the "tests" and you are correct so much is missed in education that way.  Much has been said about Florida's governor here but one thing he has done that is a very good thing is require that every student take and pass a Civics class before graduating high school.  It is amazing to me the number of people who don't know how a president is elected, how a law is passed, what the 3 branches of government are...etc etc.   This and yes, the inability to critically think about any subject makes it impossible to properly analyze any topic.

 

I appreciate reading your post.  

 

13 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

social media is also largely at blame

 

Agree.  With proper critical thinking education in the liberal arts including world and American history as well as Civics, most of the clap trap that is posted on social media would be put in the trash can that it belongs.

[HappyInVan]

Good News from the UK. See chart below. I think that domestic cruising will resume in the UK this summer. 👍

 

After a grueling 3 month national shutdown, and a gradual easing of restrictions. Plus, lots of vaccination. UK looking good. Plus, rapid response to new outbreaks. Surge testing and genetic analysis!

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-test-variant-wandsworth-lambeth-b1830374.html

 

Boris Johnson has finally read the memo. Debbie is envious! ☹️

 

[tosteve1]

Good news???? It can’t be!

[Lido - Lanai]

He must have cleaned his green eye shade ! SMH

[anniegb]

7 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

Good News from the UK. See chart below. I think that domestic cruising will resume in the UK this summer. 👍

 

After a grueling 3 month national shutdown, and a gradual easing of restrictions. Plus, lots of vaccination. UK looking good. Plus, rapid response to new outbreaks. Surge testing and genetic analysis!

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-test-variant-wandsworth-lambeth-b1830374.html

 

Boris Johnson has finally read the memo. Debbie is envious! ☹️

 

You mean England.

 

Different rules in the other 3 nations.  We may have a 4 nation strategy.  

[HappyInVan]

46 minutes ago, anniegb said:

You mean England.

 

Different rules in the other 3 nations.  We may have a 4 nation strategy.  

 

 

Thanks. Is there a big difference? Did Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland not go into a shut-down?

[anniegb]

22 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 

Thanks. Is there a big difference? Did Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland not go into a shut-down?

Yes with different rule sets.  No pubs are opened currently in Wales or Scotland.  N.Ireland - unsure??

 

Quarantine rules also vary.  JMO England's quarantine rules are too lax - now they have a cluster in London involving the N501Y (SA) variant.

 

JMO all 4 UK nations should follow the example of NZ and Australia.

[HappyInVan]

Looks like Debbie was dead right! Does she have a crystal ball?

 

https://news.yahoo.com/america-may-close-hitting-vaccine-095012220.html

 

Not sure what this means for the coming booster shot. Would even fewer people take the booster?

 

This matters because of the rising number of vax-resistant variants. Scientists have been warning about this since November when the UK variant surfaced.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-brazil-variant/brazils-p1-coronavirus-variant-mutating-may-become-more-dangerous-study-idUSKBN2C11XX

 

As you may know, Canuck hockey team was hit by the Brazilian variant. Whistler ski operations shut down...

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/whistlers-festive-mountain-culture-is-silenced-by-outbreak-of-brazilian-covid-variant

 

Looks like the Canadian government got it right when it ban cruising till February 2022. Alaska season out of Vancouver is fini.

 

[Mary229]

The Debbies' rightness or wrongness depends on where you live.  In the past year 400,000 have cruised with very few passengers detected with corona virus.   Actually American Cruise Lines is cruising right here in the US.  

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

Scientists have been warning about this since November when the UK variant surfaced.

 

From what I read here on Cruise Critic some people still haven't been able to wrap their minds around the CDC updating their advice on mask wearing -- which happened a scant two months after COVID first spread to the US. 

 

I hold out little hope that they will dedicate the bandwidth to understand why the spread of new variants is something to be greatly concerned about....

 

 

[kazu]

29 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

From what I read here on Cruise Critic some people still haven't been able to wrap their minds around the CDC updating their advice on mask wearing -- which happened a scant two months after COVID first spread to the US. 

 

I hold out little hope that they will dedicate the bandwidth to understand why the spread of new variants is something to be greatly concerned about....

 

 

 

Your final sentence would be funny if it weren’t so sad and unfortunately, I agree with you.

[idiebabe]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

The Debbies' rightness or wrongness depends on where you live.  In the past year 400,000 have cruised with very few passengers detected with corona virus.   Actually American Cruise Lines is cruising right here in the US.  

So true!  Posted on another Thread showing that Cruising can be safely done even without the Vaccine.

 

Cruising During COVID-19 - Our Experience On Board the MSC Grandiosa in April 2021 - Bing video

 

 

[Mary229]

On 3/9/2021 at 1:08 PM, wesport said:

I always thought that people on cruise critic that keep saying no cruising in 2021 were so pessimistic.

@idiebabe  I think many have forgotten the original premise of the thread.  It wasn't about the course of the disease, it was about cruising - imagine that, it was actually about cruising.

 

Genting is sailing in Asia, MSC is sailing in Europe, small expedition cruises will be sailing.  RCCL will be sailing out of Israel and the Caribbean. The UK, of all people, will be allowing sailings.    There are likely others but these I can source information.  

Edited April 17, 2021 by Mary229

[AncientWanderer]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

From what I read here on Cruise Critic some people still haven't been able to wrap their minds around the CDC updating their advice on mask wearing -- which happened a scant two months after COVID first spread to the US. 

 

I hold out little hope that they will dedicate the bandwidth to understand why the spread of new variants is something to be greatly concerned about....

 

 

 

I don't find this to be the case at all.   People here have been really generous in sharing bits of intelligently gathered information from a multitude of sources.  What seems to vary most is risk tolerance, and that's always the case with humans.  I tend toward those who want to get a move on, because we could hunker down forever waiting for variants.  They will undoubtedly keep emerging from less wealthy countries who don't have advantages of health care we have here.

But I'm not gonna turn into the old woman in the Twilight Zone episode, hiding in my house until a smooth-talking Grim Reaper -- a young Robert Redford -- talks me into opening my door.

(I apologize for the melodrama. lol)

 

I certainly do see wisdom from those posters who advise waiting a bit until we know just how efficacious these vaccines really are.  That will probably be pretty soon.  So far the news has been good in that regard.

[tosteve1]

4 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

Looks like Debbie was dead right! Does she have a crystal ball?

 

https://news.yahoo.com/america-may-close-hitting-vaccine-095012220.html

 

Not sure what this means for the coming booster shot. Would even fewer people take the booster?

 

This matters because of the rising number of vax-resistant variants. Scientists have been warning about this since November when the UK variant surfaced.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-brazil-variant/brazils-p1-coronavirus-variant-mutating-may-become-more-dangerous-study-idUSKBN2C11XX

 

As you may know, Canuck hockey team was hit by the Brazilian variant. Whistler ski operations shut down...

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/whistlers-festive-mountain-culture-is-silenced-by-outbreak-of-brazilian-covid-variant

 

Looks like the Canadian government got it right when it ban cruising till February 2022. Alaska season out of Vancouver is fini.

 

Yahoo and Axios...always my first choice for scientific information!