Latest CDC-CSO Requirements

[not-enough-cruising]

1 minute ago, Junkhouse said:

Didn’t CCDC recommend the distance be only 3 feet? So many confusing and contradictory directives that aren’t scientific.

It depends on if it’s an even or odd numbered day, and what phase the moon is in. 

[paulh84]

6 minutes ago, Junkhouse said:

Didn’t CCDC recommend the distance be only 3 feet? So many confusing and contradictory directives that aren’t scientific.

 

No. It's not confusing or contradictory at all if you read the context. 

 

• In elementary schools, CDC recommends all students remain at least 3 feet apart in classrooms where mask use is universal — regardless of whether community transmission is low, moderate, substantial, or high.
• In middle and high schools, CDC also recommends students should be at least 3 feet apart in classrooms where mask use is universal and in communities where transmission is low, moderate, or substantial.
• Middle school students and high school students should be at least 6 feet apart in communities where transmission is high, if cohorting is not possible. Cohorting is when groups of students are kept together with the same peers and staff throughout the school day to reduce the risk for spread throughout the school.  This recommendation is because COVID-19 transmission dynamics are different in older students – that is, they are more likely to be exposed to SARS-CoV-2 and spread it than younger children.

 

 

3 hours ago, molly361 said:

I just read an article where NCL CEO said there is no way they can be ready to sail by July.  That they need 90 days at least to get going.  I think they have already cancelled their July sailings.  

 

NCL burned themselves once already by deciding to restaff several ships at the height of cases in the US. Del Rio should be pounding his fists at whoever (himself?) made that brilliant decision. 

[molly361]

The local news is making it sound like the cruise lines ARE going to do the test cruises.  So confusing.

[not-enough-cruising]

15 minutes ago, molly361 said:

The local news is making it sound like the cruise lines ARE going to do the test cruises.  So confusing.

Doesn’t matter, the rest of the CSO is so onerous nothing will be happening anytime soon. 

[smokeybandit]

1 hour ago, molly361 said:

The local news is making it sound like the cruise lines ARE going to do the test cruises.  So confusing.

They'd be crazy not to do the test cruises.

[Jeremiah1212]

1 hour ago, molly361 said:

The local news is making it sound like the cruise lines ARE going to do the test cruises.  So confusing.

 

I wouldn't put too much faith that they really have any understanding of what is going on. Some well known vloggers have gotten certain points of this fundamentally wrong today. 

 

To further complicate if you want, there is nothing preventing a single cruise line from saying ship #1 will do test cruises and try to sail without mostly vaccinated guests and ship #2 will sail with 95% vaccinated guests. I don't think they will go that route, but there is nothing stopping them since the actual CSO itself is on a ship by ship basis. 

[smokeybandit]

3 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

I wouldn't put too much faith that they really have any understanding of what is going on. Some well known vloggers have gotten certain points of this fundamentally wrong today. 

 

To further complicate if you want, there is nothing preventing a single cruise line from saying ship #1 will do test cruises and try to sail without mostly vaccinated guests and ship #2 will sail with 95% vaccinated guests. I don't think they will go that route, but there is nothing stopping them since the actual CSO itself is on a ship by ship basis. 

 

I think they will go that route. That way if the CDC changes its mind somewhere along the way, specifically around how long vaccines last, the cruise lines aren't caught dead in the water not being able to get 95%.

[molly361]

Don't know if it was right or wrong but the news people even said that each ship would have to do test cruises in order to sail.  It's not just one ship and then all of them can go, they EACH have to do their own test cruises.

[coldflame]

13 hours ago, Icesk8rReedy said:

So this might be a dumb question, but if I am on the 10/31 sailing and the CSO order is set to expire and they DON'T extend it, will buffets and the 6 feet apart rule still be applied?  Sorry if it's a dumb question, I'm brain dead after finals this week.

 

New CDC rules states all-service food venues closed. So they could make windjammer full service I guess? lol. Cruising will be such sh*tshow this year.

[ReneeFLL]

12 hours ago, davekathy said:

Servers serving up your selected items in the WJ is way over due. Works great in the MDR on sea days at the Tutti salad bar. 

Completely agree. I have always hated having a million other people touching the utensils, but I like eating in the Windjammer.

[ReneeFLL]

10 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Not exactly sure how the server putting food on your plate cuts down on guests to guest contact in the buffet line..............Think about it?

You hand the server your plate, he puts on 2 pieces of ham on your plate, hands it back you. granted he is wearing gloves, the same gloves he  had on from the person before you that got 2 pieces of ham...............so he touched the same plate the guest before handed to the server, he then touched your plate, same gloves etc............this goes on and on down the buffet line.

In turn you may have 10 or so guests germs on your plate by the time you get to your table, all depends how many items you grab too in the buffet line.

Anyone following me after all of the above?

 

Servers in buffet line doesn't help that much at all.

Passenger holds plate out and the server doesn’t touch it. Problem solved.

Edited May 7, 2021 by ReneeFLL

[lovescats5]

So if you are to assume everyone on the ship has Covid why do we have to get a vaccine.  Guess the vaccine is not as great as we are lead to believe.

[Biker19]

11 hours ago, molly361 said:

I just read an article where NCL CEO said there is no way they can be ready to sail by July.  That they need 90 days at least to get going.  I think they have already cancelled their July sailings.  

For others who may not have read it:

 

Frank Del Rio expressed disappointment in his first read of the CDC's newly issued cruise guidelines and called Florida's order banning businesses from asking for documentation of COVID-19 vaccination 'an issue.'

 

Most of all, he stressed the power of Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings' commitment to 100% crew and passenger vaccination on top of the Healthy Sail Panel's protocols as an 'iron-clad' approach.

 

It's unclear, Del Rio said Thursday, if the 'numerous and onerous' items spelled out in the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's new guidance apply to vaccinated voyages as well.

 

A 'preposterous' masking example

In the agency's highly detailed and prescriptive operations manual for simulated and restricted voyages, one mask-related point states: 'While the order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this order.'

 

Del Rio considers that 'preposterous' for a fully vaccinated ship.

 

'In between bites of your meal and sips of your drink, you have to put on and take off masks. So nobody should order soup, because your mask may get sloppy,' he said.

 

'It's not in the spirit of where the country is headed, where President Biden wants to open the country. Seventy percent of Americans will be vaccinated by the beginning of the third quarter. We hope we're reading it wrong. We hope there'll be clarifications. We hope some of these more onerous requirements in Phase 2B only apply to cruises, ships, brands that are not going to vaccinate ...'

CDC loophole for COVID introduction to crew

And when it comes to vaccination, Del Rio can't fathom CDC's call for 98% of crew and 95% of passengers in order to bypass trial voyages. He thinks it should be 100%.

 

'I don't understand 98%. You have a big ship, You have 1,800 crew members on board, and you're going to vaccinate 1,764 of them, but not 36? What a loophole to allow potential COVID to be introduced in the crew area.

 

'One hundred percent, at least in the beginning, I believe, should be the model. If the CDC and the rest of the industry wants to go in another direction, great. We want to go 100%,' Del Rio stressed.

In any case, NCLH doesn't plan any trial voyages because it's going the fully vaccinated route, and everywhere. That applies to all ships and geographies, even outside the US.

 

In contrast, some major lines with vaccination mandates are taking one ship and geography at a time. 

 

No chance now to put additional ships out by July

There's no opportunity to put additional vessels out by July, Del Rio told analysts during today's business update, because it takes 90 days to start up a ship. When NCLH came out with its full vaccination plan and asked CDC to waive the conditional sailing order on April 6, there was time to get ships in service by July. Now, a month later, CDC hasn't addressed that so it's not going to be possible. As a result, the company is focused on starting up its first six ships outside the US in July, August and September.

Perplexed, flabbergasted and outraged

Why cruising is being singled out from airlines and other businesses leaves Del Rio 'perplexed, flabbergasted and outraged ... We're willing to vaccinate every single person on a cruise ship. There isn't another venue on Earth, not a school, not a factory, not your office or apartment building, much less an entertainment venue like a casino, hotel or resort can make that claim. We will be the safest place on earth by definition.'

 

On top of the vaccination mandate are the Health Sail Panel protocols.

'That one-two punch is unbeatable,' Del Rio asserted. 'No one else has it, yet, the CDC continues continues to treat us differently, unfairly.' He added it's not like the CDC has managed the virus so well in the US, which ranks No. 1 for deaths and hospitalizations.

 

'Yet they pick on the cruise industry in the extreme.'

The NCLH chief expressed his hope that the twice-weekly calls with CDC will improve the situation, as he said happened with Phase 2A. During this afternoon's call, his company plans to communicate that the newly published Phase 2B and 2C are 'unacceptable in many areas.'

Florida's vaccine passport ban could drive away ships

As for Gov. Ron DeSantis's vaccine passport ban —  his April 2 executive order states that 'Businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon or service from the business' — it's a classic state-federal legal conflict, Del Rio said.

NCLH is talking with the governor's office and Del Rio said lawyers believe federal takes precedence here. But he hopes it doesn't become a legal or political football.

 

'There are other states we do operate from, and we can operate from the Caribbean with ships that would have sailed from Florida. We certainly hope it doesn't come to that. Everyone wants to operate out of Florida. It's a very lucrative market. It's a close drive market. But it's an issue. We can't ignore it. We hope everyone in pushing in the same direction. We want to resume cruising in the safest possible manner.'

 

Del Rio pokes holes CDC cruise stance, Florida vaccine passport ban (seatrade-cruise.com)

[SpartacusMD]

5 hours ago, Biker19 said:

For others who may not have read it:

 

Frank Del Rio expressed disappointment in his first read of the CDC's newly issued cruise guidelines and called Florida's order banning businesses from asking for documentation of COVID-19 vaccination 'an issue.'

 

Most of all, he stressed the power of Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings' commitment to 100% crew and passenger vaccination on top of the Healthy Sail Panel's protocols as an 'iron-clad' approach.

 

It's unclear, Del Rio said Thursday, if the 'numerous and onerous' items spelled out in the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's new guidance apply to vaccinated voyages as well.

 

A 'preposterous' masking example

In the agency's highly detailed and prescriptive operations manual for simulated and restricted voyages, one mask-related point states: 'While the order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this order.'

 

Del Rio considers that 'preposterous' for a fully vaccinated ship.

 

'In between bites of your meal and sips of your drink, you have to put on and take off masks. So nobody should order soup, because your mask may get sloppy,' he said.

 

'It's not in the spirit of where the country is headed, where President Biden wants to open the country. Seventy percent of Americans will be vaccinated by the beginning of the third quarter. We hope we're reading it wrong. We hope there'll be clarifications. We hope some of these more onerous requirements in Phase 2B only apply to cruises, ships, brands that are not going to vaccinate ...'

CDC loophole for COVID introduction to crew

And when it comes to vaccination, Del Rio can't fathom CDC's call for 98% of crew and 95% of passengers in order to bypass trial voyages. He thinks it should be 100%.

 

'I don't understand 98%. You have a big ship, You have 1,800 crew members on board, and you're going to vaccinate 1,764 of them, but not 36? What a loophole to allow potential COVID to be introduced in the crew area.

 

'One hundred percent, at least in the beginning, I believe, should be the model. If the CDC and the rest of the industry wants to go in another direction, great. We want to go 100%,' Del Rio stressed.

In any case, NCLH doesn't plan any trial voyages because it's going the fully vaccinated route, and everywhere. That applies to all ships and geographies, even outside the US.

 

In contrast, some major lines with vaccination mandates are taking one ship and geography at a time. 

 

No chance now to put additional ships out by July

There's no opportunity to put additional vessels out by July, Del Rio told analysts during today's business update, because it takes 90 days to start up a ship. When NCLH came out with its full vaccination plan and asked CDC to waive the conditional sailing order on April 6, there was time to get ships in service by July. Now, a month later, CDC hasn't addressed that so it's not going to be possible. As a result, the company is focused on starting up its first six ships outside the US in July, August and September.

Perplexed, flabbergasted and outraged

Why cruising is being singled out from airlines and other businesses leaves Del Rio 'perplexed, flabbergasted and outraged ... We're willing to vaccinate every single person on a cruise ship. There isn't another venue on Earth, not a school, not a factory, not your office or apartment building, much less an entertainment venue like a casino, hotel or resort can make that claim. We will be the safest place on earth by definition.'

 

On top of the vaccination mandate are the Health Sail Panel protocols.

'That one-two punch is unbeatable,' Del Rio asserted. 'No one else has it, yet, the CDC continues continues to treat us differently, unfairly.' He added it's not like the CDC has managed the virus so well in the US, which ranks No. 1 for deaths and hospitalizations.

 

'Yet they pick on the cruise industry in the extreme.'

The NCLH chief expressed his hope that the twice-weekly calls with CDC will improve the situation, as he said happened with Phase 2A. During this afternoon's call, his company plans to communicate that the newly published Phase 2B and 2C are 'unacceptable in many areas.'

Florida's vaccine passport ban could drive away ships

As for Gov. Ron DeSantis's vaccine passport ban —  his April 2 executive order states that 'Businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon or service from the business' — it's a classic state-federal legal conflict, Del Rio said.

NCLH is talking with the governor's office and Del Rio said lawyers believe federal takes precedence here. But he hopes it doesn't become a legal or political football.

 

'There are other states we do operate from, and we can operate from the Caribbean with ships that would have sailed from Florida. We certainly hope it doesn't come to that. Everyone wants to operate out of Florida. It's a very lucrative market. It's a close drive market. But it's an issue. We can't ignore it. We hope everyone in pushing in the same direction. We want to resume cruising in the safest possible manner.'

 

Del Rio pokes holes CDC cruise stance, Florida vaccine passport ban (seatrade-cruise.com)

Further proof that Florida continues to lag behind in common sense.

 

Why would you be opposed to a private company mandating vaccinations?!? 

[ArthurUSCG]

18 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

It'll be a huge hinderance with servers in the buffet line.  For no real benefit since surface transmission isn't something to be concerned about.

It will also cut down on Norovirus transmission vectors.

[ArthurUSCG]

The 98% crew vaccination requirement will likely be treated as 100% by everyone, but it gives just enough wiggle room for unreadable cards, transfer of crew and the person is day 13 after the 2nd shot, etc, without one undoted "i" ending the voyage. It's common sense wiggle room.

As far as singling out cruising, any sailor will tell you, you share everything in ship life, every little bug will find it's way between racks. But the line where the sky meets the sea, calls you.

[Keksie]

1 hour ago, SpartacusMD said:

Further proof that Florida continues to lag behind in common sense.

 

Why would you be opposed to a private company mandating vaccinations?!? 

Vaccine passport or not cruising is not happening out of Florida any time soon anyway.  Requiring everyone to be vaccinated for a cruise may make sense at least at the start.  However, requiring everyone to be vaccinated to go into a grocery store, a hardware store or Walmart does not.  Having to essentially show your papers before every day activities does create two classes of people.  Before you say that won't happen yes it could.  

[smokeybandit]

47 minutes ago, ArthurUSCG said:

It will also cut down on Norovirus transmission vectors.

Which is already a very rare thing.

[Jeremiah1212]

19 minutes ago, Keksie said:

Vaccine passport or not cruising is not happening out of Florida any time soon anyway.  Requiring everyone to be vaccinated for a cruise may make sense at least at the start.  However, requiring everyone to be vaccinated to go into a grocery store, a hardware store or Walmart does not.  Having to essentially show your papers before every day activities does create two classes of people.  Before you say that won't happen yes it could.  

 

So a temporary vaccination requirement to safely resume cruising is suddenly the catalyst to champion social equity, equal opportunity and fairness in society  😂  

[boscobeans]

41 minutes ago, Keksie said:

Vaccine passport or not cruising is not happening out of Florida any time soon anyway.  Requiring everyone to be vaccinated for a cruise may make sense at least at the start.  However, requiring everyone to be vaccinated to go into a grocery store, a hardware store or Walmart does not.  Having to essentially show your papers before every day activities does create two classes of people.  Before you say that won't happen yes it could.  

Well what if the cruise is scheduled to visit a port WHERE VACCINATION IS MANDATORY ??

 

Then the State of Florida has the right to ban those specific cruises ???

[BecciBoo]

21 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Not exactly sure how the server putting food on your plate cuts down on guests to guest contact in the buffet line..............Think about it?

You hand the server your plate, he puts on 2 pieces of ham on your plate, hands it back you. granted he is wearing gloves, the same gloves he  had on from the person before you that got 2 pieces of ham...............so he touched the same plate the guest before handed to the server, he then touched your plate, same gloves etc............this goes on and on down the buffet line.

In turn you may have 10 or so guests germs on your plate by the time you get to your table, all depends how many items you grab too in the buffet line.

Anyone following me after all of the above?

 

Servers in buffet line doesn't help that much at all.

You don't get the plate he does, then serves and hands you the plate of food,  no one has even touched the plate at all with hands.  That's the whole premis.  We have been on Noro ships that emplimented that, you don't touch your plate until he hands it to you.

[JAMESCC]

The CDC is completely, and totally out of control at this point. They are coming up with some of the craziest most insane rules to, in my opinion, ruin the cruise experience on purpose. They couldn't come up with dumber, more cumbersome rules if they tried, because these are it. 

These stupid rules apply to even vaccinated passengers and cruises. To me it either says "these vaccines don't work" [which I don't believe, got my second shot yesterday] or they are deliberately trying to deliberately ruin the cruise experience. They are totally out of control. and drunk on some insane power. I believe they would be happy if cruises never came back even after the pandemic ends. 

[DCGuy64]

4 minutes ago, JAMESCC said:

I believe they would be happy if cruises never came back even after the pandemic ends. 

And now you know why cruise lines are essentially saying "F*** you" to the CDC and taking their ships elsewhere. They're sailing from the UK, Europe, Asia and the Caribbean without ever stopping in the US. Because of these asinine rules. Our next 3 cruises all leave outside the US.

[ChutChut]

4 hours ago, SpartacusMD said:

Further proof that Florida continues to lag behind in common sense.

 

Why would you be opposed to a private company mandating vaccinations?!? 

Hmmmm - I could think of dozens of reasons....

[ChutChut]

1 hour ago, JAMESCC said:

The CDC is completely, and totally out of control at this point. They are coming up with some of the craziest most insane rules to, in my opinion, ruin the cruise experience on purpose. They couldn't come up with dumber, more cumbersome rules if they tried, because these are it. 

These stupid rules apply to even vaccinated passengers and cruises. To me it either says "these vaccines don't work" [which I don't believe, got my second shot yesterday] or they are deliberately trying to deliberately ruin the cruise experience. They are totally out of control. and drunk on some insane power. I believe they would be happy if cruises never came back even after the pandemic ends. 

CDC now is an out of control political body that may not even have the authority to issue any of these directives. It's shameful. There is at least one lawsuit challenging the CDC's authority - or if they have authority - challenges their arbitrary and capricious actions.