Is Royal Caribbean trying to get all Canadians to cancel their planned cruises?

[billyu]

4 hours ago, NSnewcruiser said:

Mixed Vaccines from Different Manufacturers

We understand some guests may have been vaccinated with doses from two different vaccine manufacturers. Whether these are accepted depends on the mix of manufacturers and where you are sailing from.  

For Cruises Departing from U.S. Ports 

The U.S. CDC advises that a vaccine series should be completed with products from the same manufacturer, as the safety of a mixed-product series has not been fully evaluated. However, Royal Caribbean will accommodate guests who are vaccinated with mixed mRNA vaccines, such as 1 shot of Pfizer and 1 shot of Moderna. The doses must be separated by at least 28 days and not more than 42 days.

We do not accept 1 shot of an mRNA vaccine (e.g., Pfizer or Moderna) mixed with 1 shot of a viral vector vaccine (e.g., AstraZeneca). 

Mixed vaccines may not be accepted at all ports of call. Guests who are vaccinated with a mixed series may need to undergo additional testing at embarkation if they wish to go ashore in these ports.

What vaccines are accepted?

 

Royal Caribbean accepts vaccines that are fully approved or authorized for emergency use by the U.S. FDA or the World Health Organization. All doses of your vaccine should be from the same manufacturer and of the same type (e.g. mRNA), in the required number of doses to be considered fully administered (e.g. 2 shots of Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, etc., or 1 shot of Johnson & Johnson). A guest is considered fully vaccinated 14 days after their vaccine series is completed.

 

 

I don't see any mention of a timeline if you got the same vaccine shot. Seems the 28-42 days timeline is only mentioned for mixing vaccines.

 

 

That's the same way I understand the policy.  

[Ocean Boy]

3 hours ago, dswallow said:

 

Really, only to the extent they're willing to then be subject to the draconian mask rules.

 

It seems that RCI's Florida sailings are subject to masking rules except for the few areas on the ships that are restricted to vaxxed only guests.

[xcell]

So the question remains -- it's not that we cannot cruise but the requirements are meant to be difficult -- what then happens to all the FCC that we have been moving from one cruise to another? Will RCCL keep allowing this? 

[dswallow]

27 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

It seems that RCI's Florida sailings are subject to masking rules except for the few areas on the ships that are restricted to vaxxed only guests.

 

They are following the CDC guidance in the CSO for when masks are required.

[BirdTravels]

5 hours ago, NSnewcruiser said:

I don't see any mention of a timeline if you got the same vaccine shot. Seems the 28-42 days timeline is only mentioned for mixing vaccines.

Which is good since the recommended optimal interval for Pfizer is 21 days and that is what we both got. 

[smplybcause]

3 hours ago, twangster said:

Here's the thing.  The virus isn't over.  We are not back to normal.  Not even close.

 

I don't think it ever will be over. I won't be like measles or polio where the virus practically disappears for a number of reasons. The question is whether this settles in as the flu has or not. Considering how contagious it is and seemingly how fast it mutates along with a vaccine that is significantly more effective than the flu shot I'm less inclined to believe that countries and such will abandon vaccine proof quickly. But my crystal ball was left on my last cruise 😉

[Russ Lomas]

8 hours ago, DirtyDawg said:

Chill, it's Saturday, by Monday they might change the rules again. And then the following week, something completely different. And the following week ...

I certainly hope you are correct.  We sail in 20 days.  A buddy sails in 6 days.  Just imagine if you were all set for your cruise and this was thrown at you 3 days prior to flying to Florida for your cruise.  If you have a cruise booked months from now, it is easier to sit back and wait for change.  For those of us booked in the next couple of weeks, the timelines are crucial.

 

7 hours ago, twangster said:

It's not an anti-Canadian policy.  The policy doesn't even mention Canada.  

Very few countries in the world were able to have enough vaccines for their residents to get the shots in a timely fashion to protect them like the US did.  Many in the US are unwilling to get vaccinated.  The decision to only consider those who received a 2nd dose in the 2 week time allotment means all those in many of countries around the world will not be considered vaccinated to sail from the US.

 

7 hours ago, twangster said:

I completely understand the frustration with Canada's rollout of vaccines.  That's not Royal Caribbean's doing.  All they can do is follow the studies that were based on following the recommended guidance until new studies are accepted.

 

Hopefully new studies will continue to provide new information that can be used to adjust policies.   I believe it will.  Until that occurs ranting misinformation on social media is not the solution or helpful. 

Agreed that as Canadians, we were frustrated with the initial rollout of vaccines here.  That is long past now and Canada has greatly surpassed the number of vaccinated Americans (by a bit for 2 doses and by a lot for their first doses).  Unfortunately, due to this rule which RCCL just posted a day ago, none of us are considered vaccinated, whereas RCCL considered us fully vaccinated on Thursday.  That is what is frustrating.  We jump over a hundred hurdles to get to our cruise and then days before it sails, RCCL tosses a new policy at us and moves the finish line.

 

I am not sure what misinformation you are referring to on Social Media.  Someone posted they talked to a supervisor at RCCL who informed them that those who received the same vaccines for both shots (like we did with Pfizer) will be considered unvaccinated in the eyes of RCCL if they did not receive their 2nd shot within a 2 week span after receiving their first dose.  Unless that individual is lying, then the RCCL supervisor either is misinforming guests or RCCL has added a new layer to being considered "vaccinated" that did not exist a couple of days ago.

 

2 hours ago, billyu said:

That's the same way I understand the policy.  

I read the policy the same as you did.  What has us concerned is the comment I made above where the RCCL supervisor said this also applies to those of us who received two doses of the same vaccine.  If that is in fact true, many of us are S.O.L. for cruising in the near future.

[mpdog42]

7 hours ago, brillohead said:

If I were a Canadian affected by all of this, I'd be more concerned with why my government didn't manage the vaccine distribution properly in the first place.

My local health department is run by some rinky dink hicks, but every day that they did first vaccines, they set aside the same number of vaccines and dated it for three weeks in the future (Pfizer here).  That way even if they didn't get a shipment down the road, they already had the second doses set aside for the people who had gotten the first shot (and those people also had a preset appointment for three weeks in the future).

 

 

Mic Drop...

[CroozFanatic]

7 hours ago, loman said:

Wow , i qualify as i got my first Pfizer shot april 12 th and managed to get my second one June 15th .

Unfortunately i have no desire to cruise this year . 

By the time i get around to it none of this will matter anymore.

 

...or you don't qualify.

[twangster]

5 hours ago, Russ Lomas said:

Very few countries in the world were able to have enough vaccines for their residents to get the shots in a timely fashion to protect them like the US did.  Many in the US are unwilling to get vaccinated.  The decision to only consider those who received a 2nd dose in the 2 week time allotment means all those in many of countries around the world will not be considered vaccinated to sail from the US.

 

Regardless - none of that changes the science.    Sorry my home country screwed up so badly but they did, leaving some of its citizens in a position where their protection from the virus isn't fully understood yet.    

 

When vaccines were first becoming available the Florida Governor suggested at the time we look at giving more people their first shot and delaying the second shot so that more people could get a first shot.  Everyone without exception attacked him for being a fool and not following manufacturer's guidance.   Canada comes along and does exactly that.  Now Canadians want to change the guidance without any studies just because that's what Canada did.  

 

Policy isn't created to suit the masses or because that is what some other countries had to do.  Policy is created based on the scientific knowledge that is available.  As that scientific knowledge evolves, so does policy.

 

US residents choosing not to vaccinate has nothing to do with this.  Why bring that into the discussion?  

 

Canadians still can't travel for leisure purposes across the US border.  Sorry you don't qualify for cruising from a select number of secondary US ports.  Cruising during the restart is not going to be for everyone and not everyone will qualify.  

[twangster]

The crux of the matter is that Health Canada chose not to follow the vaccine makers guidance for time between shots.  That decision was made in Canada, by Canada.  

 

They could have set aside doses so that those who received first shots did get the second shot following the guidance of the companies that created the vaccines.  Canada chose to ignore the guidance and Canada created their own plan.  

 

No one yet knows if that will prove to be the right call or if it ends up being the wrong call.  It's too early to know.  

 

The choices made by Canada may or may not have saved lives in the past few months.  That is what we are talking here, mere months.  It's not like there are years since the decision was made and we can all look back analyzing mountains of data.  No one knows yet.  

 

 

[twangster]

Time and again we see people complain that companies put profit before safety.  

 

Here we see people complain a cruise line is putting safety before profit.  

 

Once the science is on Canada's side and supports the approach that Canada took with respect to the vaccine rollout, only then will it be known to be safe.   

 

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by twangster

[NSnewcruiser]

I'm not complaining about that. I'm just stating the fact that nowhere on their website does it state that two week interval for a person who got the same 2 shots. Why should I have to call Royal to clarify what is clearly stated on their website? Or why should I show up at port to get on the ship to then find out oh sorry ,it was implied.

Curiosity, Pfizer recommended 21 days after 1st shot to get 2nd shot, correct? I'm sure a lot of people in the US got their second shot then, right? So that's not between 28 days and 42 days. So will those people be denied boarding as well?

[Biker19]

7 hours ago, smplybcause said:

I don't think it ever will be over.

You channeling @ace2542?

[Ourusualbeach]

4 minutes ago, NSnewcruiser said:

I'm not complaining about that. I'm just stating the fact that nowhere on their website does it state that two week interval for a person who got the same 2 shots. Why should I have to call Royal to clarify what is clearly stated on their website? Or why should I show up at port to get on the ship to then find out oh sorry ,it was implied.

Curiosity, Pfizer recommended 21 days after 1st shot to get 2nd shot, correct? I'm sure a lot of people in the US got their second shot then, right? So that's not between 28 days and 42 days. So will those people be denied boarding as well?

They are going by manufacturer guidelines so if Pfizer was 21 days after to 42 days after then they will go with that is what I was told.  That is why timing intervals were not stated for same dose vaccinations

 

 

[Ocean Boy]

53 minutes ago, twangster said:

Time and again we see people complain that companies put profit before safety.  

 

Here we see people complain a cruise line is putting safety before profit.  

 

Plenty of people support 100% vaccinated cruises and that includes appropriate timing of doses. Safety before profit.

[twangster]

3 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Plenty of people support 100% vaccinated cruises and that includes appropriate timing of doses. Safety before profit.

 

Policy isn't created based on what "plenty of people" think.  

 

Policy is based on government requirements and science.   

[Ocean Boy]

3 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Policy isn't created based on what "plenty of people" think.  

 

Policy is based on government requirements and science.   

My point was they support the science and putting safety above profit?. Does it not point to proper dosing and high vaccination rates? 

[twangster]

Just now, Ocean Boy said:

My point was they support the science and putting safety above profit?. Does it not point to proper dosing and high vaccination rates? 

 

The CDC created detailed guidance for cruise ships.  They are following it, for US ports, because they have to.

 

Some cruise lines that are "requiring vaccinations" are also allowing up to the 5% unvaccinated that the CDC guidance allows, for US ports.

 

If anyone doesn't like the guidance created by the US federal government don't cruise in the US.  But don't blame cruise lines for operating within the guidance they are required to follow.   

 

 

[Ocean Boy]

2 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

The CDC created detailed guidance for cruise ships.  They are following it, for US ports, because they have to.

 

Some cruise lines that are "requiring vaccinations" are also allowing up to the 5% unvaccinated that the CDC guidance allows, for US ports.

 

If anyone doesn't like the guidance created by the US federal government don't cruise in the US.  But don't blame cruise lines for operating within the guidance they are required to follow.   

 

 

It seems to me we are in the same side but it doesn't seem to be coming out that way.

[A&L_Ont]

42 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

They are going by manufacturer guidelines so if Pfizer was 21 days after to 42 days after then they will go with that is what I was told.  That is why timing intervals were not stated for same dose vaccinations.

Don’t ask, don’t tell policy for Canadians with same doses?😉

[twangster]

My posts are aimed at the author of the thread who is trying to shame the cruise line for following the regulations they are required to follow.

 

Cruise lines have a very narrow set of choices to make when operating in the US.  They are not free to craft whatever policy they want.

 

It's entirely possible when the US government decides to open the Canadian border to leisure travel they may reject travelers deemed not fully vaccinated due to mixed or extended interval dosage.   Will that also be Royal Caribbean's fault?

[kearney]

56 minutes ago, NSnewcruiser said:

I'm not complaining about that. I'm just stating the fact that nowhere on their website does it state that two week interval for a person who got the same 2 shots. Why should I have to call Royal to clarify what is clearly stated on their website? Or why should I show up at port to get on the ship to then find out oh sorry ,it was implied.

Curiosity, Pfizer recommended 21 days after 1st shot to get 2nd shot, correct? I'm sure a lot of people in the US got their second shot then, right? So that's not between 28 days and 42 days. So will those people be denied boarding as well?

Generally speaking, when you got the first dose..they told you when to come back for the second dose... perhaps some slipped past...but more than likely still within the time frame. We had sufficient doses with the exception of a one week period where there was a bad snow storm which impacted timing by a few days.

[xcell]

22 minutes ago, twangster said:

My posts are aimed at the author of the thread who is trying to shame the cruise line for following the regulations they are required to follow.

 

Cruise lines have a very narrow set of choices to make when operating in the US.  They are not free to craft whatever policy they want.

 

It's entirely possible when the US government decides to open the Canadian border to leisure travel they may reject travelers deemed not fully vaccinated due to mixed or extended interval dosage.   Will that also be Royal Caribbean's fault?

 

 

I think the OP is as frustrated, as are most of us with the inconsistency and random guidance from all governments. I mean just look at our border crossing -- Canada says yes, USA says no.  These vaccine protocols are fine in Europe but not in the US. Does Covid change between imaginary lines? Across Oceans? If the vaccine protocols we used aren't up to par, how come our numbers are better than theirs?

 

The OP is hoping enough Canadians email to voice their complaints, similar to that fiasco in NYC where they were not going to allow certain types and regiments to see Broadway shows. Enough complaints and the rules were changed. 

 

 

[orville99]

9 hours ago, xcell said:

So the question remains -- it's not that we cannot cruise but the requirements are meant to be difficult -- what then happens to all the FCC that we have been moving from one cruise to another? Will RCCL keep allowing this? 

We just received a full refund to our credit card for an FCC on a cruise that had been cancelled - moved - then cancelled again by RCL, so apparently they have gotten a bit more rational about these situations.