Yikes! Over age 70 passengers need doctor’s note (Merged threads)

[Jim_Iain]

2 hours ago, bebe08 said:

We have a cruise booked for April and just received the email.  Although neither DH or I are over 70 I am disappointed with Celebrity for this approach.   Age discrimination is not the answer.  There are so many restrictions in their letter that it should be obvious to X that it would be best to put a temporary hold on cruising and give us a chance to get past this.   I find it ironic that we get this letter full of restrictions and doom and gloom and then the last sentence says have an incredible vacation.  Wow.  

 

I know it is convenient to blame Celebrity but in this case they are implementing what was proposed by Cruise Line International Association.   Initially Pence was to make a decision on this proposal for ALL cruise lines but haven't heard if he auctioned it.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/coronavirus-cruise-industry-proposes-travel-ban-for-people-over-70.html

[LMaxwell]

Everybody, take a step back and read between the lines.  They are getting stricter and stricter with requirements, I suspect, because they are recognizing that with so many people coming and going from every different direction they have no way to completely eradicate the virus from the ships, if they can even pinpoint it at all.  What science is showing us is that the younger, more relatively healthy people are able to fight off mile cases of this if it does not get to their lungs.  The cruise lines are basically saying "We can't contain this and/or promise you it does NOT exist on the ship no matter how much we are cleaning, so unless you're truly top notch, we have no way of knowing what will happen to you and won't take responsibility" 

 

Cases are popping up throughout south Florida and in and adjacent to Port Everglades.  The testing kit situation is as close to nil as it gets really.  If there were thousands more tests you'd be finding many more cases.  

 

With all directives to AVOID Non-Essential travel I wonder when it is going to finally click with some people? 

[airato]

42 minutes ago, Hazeleyes101 said:

The email sent out today says All guests who are denied boarding due to these restrictions will receive full compensation.  Has anyone here who booked directly through Celebrity been successful in getting through to their call center to find out for sure what form that compensation will take?   And if there's a process that sure-to-be-denied passengers could take in advance that would generate a refund of payment made?  I know that earlier the option of cancelling and receiving FCC was offered to all passengers, but this wording regarding passengers who would now be denied boarding does not specify the form of compensation. 

The email we received this morning from Celebrity said this:

 

"All guests who are denied boarding due to these restrictions will receive full refunds in the form of a Future Cruise Credit. "  We are due to depart on a cruise in one week's time.

[smogfarmgirl]

12 minutes ago, Orator said:

Good point. The. FCC may actually get you less than you originally paid. This is especially true if Celebrity raises the price of the same itinerary and I see evidence of that happening.

Tried repricing a similar one later this year to the deal I have booked now, and it’s almost double the cost! I only booked the cruise I have now because we got such an awesome deal. I have an A1 Aquaclass cabin with 3 perks. If they credit me FCC I can barely afford an ocean view, and pay for a drinks package and my gratuities. Not a comparable vacation, and not one I would have ever booked for what I paid. 

[WonderMan3]

33 minutes ago, Jim_Iain said:

 

I know it is convenient to blame Celebrity but in this case they are implementing what was proposed by Cruise Line International Association.   Initially Pence was to make a decision on this proposal for ALL cruise lines but haven't heard if he auctioned it.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/coronavirus-cruise-industry-proposes-travel-ban-for-people-over-70.html

 

That would be all well and good if there weren't three other cruise lines (Disney, Viking, Princess) already going above and beyond that.

[Hazeleyes101]

24 minutes ago, airato said:

The email we received this morning from Celebrity said this:

 

"All guests who are denied boarding due to these restrictions will receive full refunds in the form of a Future Cruise Credit. "  We are due to depart on a cruise in one week's time.

 

Thank you and that's interesting - the vague language I quoted is what's posted on the Celebrity website under "Travel Advisory" information.  I hadn't noticed that language in the email is different.  I don't like either version much!  Let's hope that their third try will be better.  

[RomanyUY]

On 3/11/2020 at 8:05 PM, Fouremco said:

Annie, thanks for the catch, I inadvertently reversed genders. Still, the issue is the same, requiring men and not women to prove that they are healthy would never be acceptable.

 

This was my primary source: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30526-2/fulltext

One point that article brings up is that part of the gender difference may be due to smoking. Since the data is from China, and there is a significant gender difference with respect to smoker vs non-smokers in China, it makes sense to look at smoking more closely.

"This sex predisposition might be associated with the much higher smoking rate in men than in women in China (288 million men vs 12·6 million women were smokers in 2018)."

More details here:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30117-X/fulltext

[jb008]

I'm sure there's wording that provides adequate "OK" from a physician while also providing adequate protection from liability to the physician.  Something like, "based upon exam and medical history patient appears fit to choose to travel at this time, and the patient is advised to follow CDC and state department guidelines pertaining to choosing to travel."

 

[mlmbar]

There are passengers younger than 70 with issues. What about them????

[az_tchr]

30 minutes ago, jb008 said:

I'm sure there's wording that provides adequate "OK" from a physician while also providing adequate protection from liability to the physician.  Something like, "based upon exam and medical history patient appears fit to choose to travel at this time, and the patient is advised to follow CDC and state department guidelines pertaining to choosing to travel."

 

That would mean the patient would not travel since the CDC says no cruise ships. Back to square 1.

I had cancer which recurs on my hands and face. The crappy letter makes ANY cancer an exclusion.

Pretty stupid

[jb008]

43 minutes ago, az_tchr said:

That would mean the patient would not travel since the CDC says no cruise ships. Back to square 1.

I had cancer which recurs on my hands and face. The crappy letter makes ANY cancer an exclusion.

Pretty stupid

 

Could always soften wording to "and patient is encouraged to follow CDC..."  Basically talk with your doc.  Issuing a "fit to travel" letter shouldn't be a big deal, and I would imagine that a letter could be pretty easily worded so it shouldn't create unreasonable liability for the physician.  Even just saying something like "based on my examination, Mr. So-and-so is medically fit to travel as of date X/X/2020".  Or ask if you could sign a separate liability waiver between you and the doc... X never needs to know about that separate waiver...

[reallyhooked]

5 hours ago, DaKahuna said:

I wonder if this is a temporary thing and is dependent upon how far out your cruise is?  I am over 70 but my next celebrity Cruise is not until May 28, 2021. 
 

We’re over 70 also,  we just changed our March 15 cruise to December. Hopefully things will be better., and no age restriction.

we will have taken a flu shot, and have November doctors appointment. Praying everything will be good to go.

[dutchclogs]

3 hours ago, helen haywood said:

Jim, as you are on a B2B, is one letter sufficient for you?

 

Jim, how do you handle this when you are already on board?  

[CTLeeA]

3 hours ago, airato said:

The email we received this morning from Celebrity said this:

 

"All guests who are denied boarding due to these restrictions will receive full refunds in the form of a Future Cruise Credit. "  We are due to depart on a cruise in one week's time.

This is just so much BS.  If I ever again decide to take a cruise with Celebrity, I think I'll tell them that rather than pay cash or charge the cruise to my credit card, I will include instructions in my will to have my estate settle my account with them upon my passing.

[CTLeeA]

3 hours ago, smogfarmgirl said:

Tried repricing a similar one later this year to the deal I have booked now, and it’s almost double the cost! I only booked the cruise I have now because we got such an awesome deal. I have an A1 Aquaclass cabin with 3 perks. If they credit me FCC I can barely afford an ocean view, and pay for a drinks package and my gratuities. Not a comparable vacation, and not one I would have ever booked for what I paid. 

Not only that...if you get a 'refund' in the form of a FCC and use it towards a cruise which you need to cancel, The FCC is gone...forever...as soon as you redeem it.

 

[zanderblue]

I am struggling to understand how this action is aligned with ensuring guests safety or managing spread of the illness. It is not a logical thing to do in that context.

There may be logic in doing this if the intention is to reduce their exposure to having to refund cash in the event they decide to cancel.

You can be sure that there will be someone in head office sitting with a spreadsheet for every cruise and will be calculating the net effect of celebrity sailing or cancelling. I’d also expect that for each cruise there will be a tipping point at which it makes economic sense to cancel. 

The skeptic in me says that Celebrity are doing all that they can to avoid paying out money. I can see, and understand, why they would want to avoid paying out cash refunds. It is much easier on the bottom line to payout FCC’s, after all its like them printing their own money. 

I guess we will see how things play out in the next week or so.................

 

[dswiss]

What good is an FCC for a >70 Senior without a guarantee that the discriminatory boarding rules will not be removed prior to the expiry of the credit?

[drakes2]

On 3/11/2020 at 12:56 PM, Fouremco said:

Fine. Just as long as CLIA ensures that it's members are prepared to provide anyone not getting a "go" note from their doctor with a 100% refund to their credit card, no FCC.

 

 

 

I dont see a line for the Medical identification number at least in canada for college of physicians and surgeons. This should be on there to prove validity. Seems no thought was put into the implementation of this. 

[Virgo61]

My husband and I are both over 70 and he has Type 2 Diabetes which seems to put him at increased risk. My problem with the new policy barring those 70 or over (which is now on the Celebrity web site), is that they don't say how long it will last. Our cruise leaves 6/27 and conditions can be much improved by then. This was a family celebration for our 50th anniversary so we are paying for 3 suites and 6 airfares. If we make final payment and can't sail because of our ages we will be stuck with a huge FCC and 4 of them won't even be in our names!

[PTC DAWG]

1 hour ago, Virgo61 said:

My husband and I are both over 70 and he has Type 2 Diabetes which seems to put him at increased risk. My problem with the new policy barring those 70 or over (which is now on the Celebrity web site), is that they don't say how long it will last. Our cruise leaves 6/27 and conditions can be much improved by then. This was a family celebration for our 50th anniversary so we are paying for 3 suites and 6 airfares. If we make final payment and can't sail because of our ages we will be stuck with a huge FCC and 4 of them won't even be in our names!

IF you were willing to pay for the trip for the family, why would you be bothered by them having the FCC? 

[Tatiana84]

12 hours ago, marciefree said:

So if my husband is over 70 and is unable to get a note, but I am under 70 and don't need a note, does that mean we will both get a 100% refund?

 

EVERYONE gets the refund due to the 48hr cancellation as well as if you were rejected at the port to board the ship. Good luck.

[Mr&MrsBee]

Both of us have type 2 diabetes for years and are under control.  Have had many cruises since 2008 with no complications,  Does this mean we can never cruise again?  Or is this a temporary rule?  Needs clarification?  Very poorly written response.

 

[Quo Vadis?]

We are on Silhouette as the first of three in a row.  Because the second cruise leaves on the 15th, no note is required.  The third cruise departs on the 27th.  How do I get a note from our family doctor who retired a year and a half ago.  The MD would have to know your medical history.  Making an appointment for getting a doctors note for a frivolous activity such as cruising when there are patients requiring serious help would be laughed off.

how old can this note be? I certainly would not make final payment before getting a note... so much for making a last minute booking.

oh.. we cancelled the next two cruises and are hightailing it to the border before it’s closed .

[HS2BS]

Over 70, elite +, sailing b2b on Summit May 9, & May 19 - NO EMAIL!

[drakes2]

30 minutes ago, Mr&MrsBee said:

Or is this a temporary rule?  Needs clarification?  Very poorly written response.

I agree very poorly written but I think this will be permanent. What I'm wondering if you book a cruise very far in advance when do you have the letter signed before or after booking when you are cleared to sail? Refundable vs non refundable?