CDC Operations Manual Updates 5/12/21

[Jeremiah1212]

3 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

Yes, now if Celebrity would declare the summer Edge, Equinox, Summit sailings will be at least 95% vaccinated if they sail this summer from the US.    And maybe Solstice/Eclipse Alaska if the PVSA workaround passes.

 

 

I haven't seen anything official but the message to TA's is clear that the 95% vaccinated route is the path they are pursuing. 

[wrk2cruise]

That would only leave the fact that my Sept B2B is 12 night followed by 9 night.  Haven't seen any mention of the 7 day limit lately.  Given the fact that they are acknowledging B2B I'm hoping the 7 day limit will be dropped as well.

[Jeremiah1212]

17 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

That would only leave the fact that my Sept B2B is 12 night followed by 9 night.  Haven't seen any mention of the 7 day limit lately.  Given the fact that they are acknowledging B2B I'm hoping the 7 day limit will be dropped as well.

The Restricted Sailing manual says nothing about a limit but the original CSO does. Celebrity has been hesitant to prematurely cancel those Equinox cruises. I think there’s a good chance they know more than we do and those cruises have a good chance of proceeding as planned. 

[boscobeans]

I am glad to see things may be looking better for cruise lines.

 

One thing popped out right away in the new regulations concerning hand washing.

 

The use of hot air hand dryers has been shown FOR YEARS to be unsanitary yet this CDC statement recommends their use along with disposable paper towels.

 

Several years ago, in an effort to be more environmentally friendly, many businesses, universities, and large corporations shunned the stacks and rolls of paper towels for these hot-air and jet dryers.

They produced less waste and ultimately could help the company’s bottom line, the rationale went.

However, this new research, which was published in the April issue of Applied and Environmental Microbiology, suggests that the environmentally friendly option may be bathing your hands in hefty doses of bacteria, even some that are usually found in feces.

[Ken the cruiser]

33 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

I am glad to see things may be looking better for cruise lines.

 

One thing popped out right away in the new regulations concerning hand washing.

 

The use of hot air hand dryers has been shown FOR YEARS to be unsanitary yet this CDC statement recommends their use along with disposable paper towels.

 

Several years ago, in an effort to be more environmentally friendly, many businesses, universities, and large corporations shunned the stacks and rolls of paper towels for these hot-air and jet dryers.

They produced less waste and ultimately could help the company’s bottom line, the rationale went.

However, this new research, which was published in the April issue of Applied and Environmental Microbiology, suggests that the environmentally friendly option may be bathing your hands in hefty doses of bacteria, even some that are usually found in feces.

I'm trying to find the reference to the "hot air hand dryers" in the CDC CSO OM and can't seem to find it. Would it be possible for you to reference where it is?

 

COVID-19 Operations Manual for Simulated and Restricted Voyages under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order | Quarantine | CDC

[K.T.B.]

2 hours ago, paulh84 said:

Testing of Embarking and Disembarking Passengers for Restricted Voyages

Screening Testing of All Embarking and Disembarking Passengers for Restricted Voyages

	Not Fully Vaccinated Passengers	Fully Vaccinated Passengers
Embarkation Day Testing	Viral (NAAT or antigen)	Not Applicable*
Disembarkation Day Testing	Viral (NAAT or antigen)	Not Applicable
Back-to-Back Sailing¥ Testing	Viral (NAAT or antigen)	Not Applicable

 

Paul, where did you get the picture from?  CDC or somewhere else?

[Ken the cruiser]

3 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Paul, where did you get the picture from?  CDC or somewhere else?

It's under the "Testing of Embarking and Disembarking Passengers for Restricted Voyages" section in the CSO OM, just updated May 14, 2021.

 

COVID-19 Operations Manual for Simulated and Restricted Voyages under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order | Quarantine | CDC

 

 

[MarkWiltonM]

On 5/13/2021 at 6:40 PM, nocl said:

Even with CDC making it obvious that requiring vaccination is the way to go the cruise lines do not seem willing to go that route to get cruising faster out of the US.

 

We got a survey last week from Holland America asking us questions about vaccination and cruising. Specifically, they wanted to know how likely we were to go on a cruise with fully vaccinated passengers and crew and how likely we were to go on a cruise without a vaccination requirement. We were in the fully vaccinated only camp.

 

At least one cruise line wants to know what its passengers want. If cruise lines schedule cruises from Florida, for example, without a vaccination requirement (per recent Florida legislation) and the cruises sell well, I guess they'll have at least part of their answer. But if they also have cruises of fully vaccinated passengers, and there's more demand for those, they'll probably schedule those. There's nothing to prevent them from having both options, on different ships/itineraries, depending on the embarkation/debarkation port(s).

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by MarkWiltonM
clarity

[boscobeans]

1 hour ago, Ken the cruiser said:

I'm trying to find the reference to the "hot air hand dryers" in the CDC CSO OM and can't seem to find it. Would it be possible for you to reference where it is?

 

COVID-19 Operations Manual for Simulated and Restricted Voyages under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order | Quarantine | CDC

Requirements

To further reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2, cruise ship operators must:

• Inform passengers of any mandatory public health measures prior to boarding
• Place posters in high-traffic areas that encourage hand hygiene to help stop the spread
• Ensure handwashing facilities are well-stocked with soap and a method to dry hands, such as paper towels or air dryers, in accordance with the 2018 VSP Operations Manual

[39august]

We, too, have an Equinox B2B leaving Sept. 26 for 12 and 9 days. I have thought for months it would not be a go, now have some small hope that it will be allowed. Final pay is not until June 28, the very LAST day we can make the payment.  I wish us and wrk2cruise good luck!

[Jeremiah1212]

1 hour ago, MarkWiltonM said:

 

We got a survey last week from Holland America asking us questions about vaccination and cruising. Specifically, they wanted to know how likely we were to go on a cruise with fully vaccinated passengers and crew and how likely we were to go on a cruise without a vaccination requirement. We were in the fully vaccinated only camp.

 

At least one cruise line wants to know what its passengers want. If cruise lines schedule cruises from Florida, for example, without a vaccination requirement (per recent Florida legislation) and the cruises sell well, I guess they'll have at least part of their answer. But if they also have cruises of fully vaccinated passengers, and there's more demand for those, they'll probably schedule those. There's nothing to prevent them from having both options, on different ships/itineraries, depending on the embarkation/debarkation port(s).

 

 

RCL sent a survey a long time ago. They’ve been consistently saying they know 80% of their passengers are already vaccinated or will be by the time of their next cruise.

 

Given the age difference in average passenger between RCL and X, it’s pretty safe to say they can confidently assume that percentage would be even higher on Celebrity. 

[NMTraveller]

Recommendations

To further reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2, cruise ship operators as best practices should:

• Consider the use of wearable proximity alerting technology, e.g. proximity bands, to alert the wearer of physical distancing infractions to assist with maintaining physical distancing protocols.

 

 

 

I just saw this blurb in the document.  Can you imagine if this one is implemented?  Everyone's bands going off as someone walks by.

[ipeeinthepool]

4 hours ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

As far as I'm concerned this is a huge deal.  If vaccinated passengers can bypass the testing step,  then boarding should be able to be something like pre Covid boarding.  No waiting to get tested and then waiting for results.   I'm also concerned about false positive test results and missing a cruise because of a testing error.

[jgmorgan]

10 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

As far as I'm concerned this is a huge deal.  If vaccinated passengers can bypass the testing step,  then boarding should be able to be something like pre Covid boarding.  No waiting to get tested and then waiting for results.   I'm also concerned about false positive test results and missing a cruise because of a testing error.

I agree that it's a huge deal and certainly moves things toward normalcy.

 

False positives are certainly possible, but the incidence appears to be quite low.  On the other hand, false negatives seem to be much more common.  This is an interesting article about it.

 

https://www.healthline.com/health/how-accurate-are-rapid-covid-tests

 

I guess if 95% plus are vaccinated, the risks of false negatives in the non-vaccinated group finding each on other on board and causing significant spread would be very low.  I really wish we knew what the case  "threshold" will be for causing a cruise to be interrupted.  I suppose that will be part of the plans submitted and subsequently approved (or not) by the CDC for U.S. cruises.

[HS2BS]

The Millennium is/will be in TX to get the crew vaccinated with J & J - wouldn’t it have been easier to hire a medical team and fly them to St. Maarten? So that give the crew just slightly over the recommended time period for effectiveness, Celebrity needs better planning for our safety. (Though the J & J vaccine didn’t work very well for the Yankees!)

 

Hal

[Jeremiah1212]

38 minutes ago, jgmorgan said:

I really wish we knew what the case  "threshold" will be for causing a cruise to be interrupted.  I suppose that will be part of the plans submitted and subsequently approved (or not) by the CDC for U.S. cruises.

 

For simulated/test cruises that threshold is 1.5% of passengers or 1% of crew. The wording is a little confusing because this document only pertains to test cruises but mentions the guidelines may be adjusted due to many things, including lessons learned from restricted (paid passenger) cruises. 

 

Advisory Related to Terminating a Simulated Voyage to Protect Health and Safety

CDC advises cruise ship operators that it may require them to immediately end a simulated voyage and take other actions to protect the health and safety of volunteer passengers and crew if a threshold of COVID-19 cases is met or exceeded during the simulation. During simulated voyages, this threshold is met when 1.5% of COVID-19 cases is detected in passengers or 1.0% of COVID-19 cases is detected in crew. This threshold may be modified for future simulated voyages or restricted passenger voyages based on lessons learned from simulated voyages or restricted passenger voyages, the evolution of the pandemic, or other factors. In the event that a simulated voyage is ended early to protect health and safety, CDC will consult with the cruise ship operator regarding any deficiencies to be noted in the operator’s action-action report and how such deficiencies are to be corrected prior to approving any additional simulated voyages.

[jgmorgan]

1 hour ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

For simulated/test cruises that threshold is 1.5% of passengers or 1% of crew.

Thanks!

[harkinmr]

5 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

RCL sent a survey a long time ago. They’ve been consistently saying they know 80% of their passengers are already vaccinated or will be by the time of their next cruise.

 

Given the age difference in average passenger between RCL and X, it’s pretty safe to say they can confidently assume that percentage would be even higher on Celebrity. 

One then wonders why they seem to be so reluctant to formally declare that they will require 100% vaccinated passengers from the US.  

[Fouremco]

8 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

One then wonders why they seem to be so reluctant to formally declare that they will require 100% vaccinated passengers from the US.  

DeSantis? They may be waiting to see the outcome of litigation instead of making the formal declaration now and then possibly having to walk it back.

[Host Jazzbeau]

11 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

DeSantis? They may be waiting to see the outcome of litigation instead of making the formal declaration now and then possibly having to walk it back.

If RCG and CCL joined with NCLH, that would change the dynamic.  The little guy is now left out to dry.

[logan25]

4 hours ago, HS2BS said:

The Millennium is/will be in TX to get the crew vaccinated with J & J - wouldn’t it have been easier to hire a medical team and fly them to St. Maarten? So that give the crew just slightly over the recommended time period for effectiveness, Celebrity needs better planning for our safety. (Though the J & J vaccine didn’t work very well for the Yankees!)

 

Hal

 

Gettin’ a little busy in the Port of Galveston.  Carnival sailed two ships in for their vaccinations.  A third was sailing there but took a sharp right to Mobile, but after the Alabama press event, Carnival Sensation seems to be redirected to Galveston.  I’ve been watching the Millennium sailing toward the Gulf without knowing it’s destination.  So Galveston certainly is logical.

[harkinmr]

9 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

DeSantis? They may be waiting to see the outcome of litigation instead of making the formal declaration now and then possibly having to walk it back.

Given that the outstanding ruling is only on the preliminary injunction and not the merits, they could be waiting a while. If the CDC loses, there will be an immediate appeal and the injunction likely stayed pending trial which could take months.  So the implication is that Celebrity would prefer not to have vaccinated sailings and are hoping to not have to commit?  

[Fouremco]

28 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Given that the outstanding ruling is only on the preliminary injunction and not the merits, they could be waiting a while. If the CDC loses, there will be an immediate appeal and the injunction likely stayed pending trial which could take months.  So the implication is that Celebrity would prefer not to have vaccinated sailings and are hoping to not have to commit?  

That could be the case, but I think that Celebrity prefers the mandatory vaccination option but is sitting on the fence waiting for some occurrence to trigger a decision.

[paulh84]

13 hours ago, harkinmr said:

One then wonders why they seem to be so reluctant to formally declare that they will require 100% vaccinated passengers from the US.  

I’ve only heard about surveys to Royal Caribbean guests but Michael Bayley this morning said the number is now more than 90%. 
 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by paulh84