Is the Captain's club dead?

[the penguins]

They have Silversea instead 

[Ken the cruiser]

All I know is that I’m sure glad we made Elite+ on our last cruise combined with all the Power Up points we scored. Because of this it wasn’t too costly to upgrade to their internet streaming package on our current Apex cruise as the Basic plan that comes with All Included wouldn’t even allow me to log onto Cruise Critic let alone upload photos to other applications.

[4774Papa]

On 11/1/2021 at 1:38 PM, the penguins said:

No other major cruise line (including Royal) has gone the route chosen by Celebrity of introducing a pricing structure that impacts so disastrously on many of it's most loyal customers.

Celebrity has recognised the problem in an email from Marie Kirk, Celebrity Engagement Center based in Wichita, who stated " we appreciate that not everyone wants or needs a full beverage package or WiFi access, so we are working to address that".

If you want to make your views known you can email Marie Kirk,  celebrityengagementcenter@celebrity.com

NCL went with bundled pricing and it significantly raised their prices, reducing their competitiveness.

I will say this about X, at least they have opened the door to allowing the option of booking without AI, by logging in to your CC account first.  Still, those prices are still a bit high, but more competitive.  Royal still beats X most of the time for the long cruises that we like.

[TeeRick]

10 hours ago, actuarian said:

However, Celebrity seems to want to compete in a higher class than HAL, more like Crystal.  A Crystal cruise always includes drinks, tips, wi-fi and specialty dining.  IMHO, the management at Celebrity might prefer to be thought of as a competing with Crystal than with HAL.  That is why they are moving toward including AL in nearly all fares instead of making it optional, as it is at HAL.

Not sure about this.  Celebrity is a mass market cruise line with large cruise ships.  Maybe they offer some premium suites and now the separate Retreat area on E-class.  Their competition seems to be other similar mass market premium (not luxury) lines like Princess, MSC and HAL.    The RCG Corp has Silversea to compete with Crystal.  They used to have Azamara.  These mass market premium lines all tend to have various marketing campaigns (like Celebrity AI) with bundled perks to compete with each other.  As does HAL as posted by @terrydtx in #147 here.  The pricing for certain Celebrity suites is sometimes in line with some Crystal or other luxury line offerings.  But it is also often in line with premium suites on other "less premium" mass market lines like Royal C.

Edited November 7, 2021 by TeeRick

[tfred]

10 hours ago, actuarian said:

However, Celebrity seems to want to compete in a higher class than HAL, more like Crystal.  A Crystal cruise always includes drinks, tips, wi-fi and specialty dining.  IMHO, the management at Celebrity might prefer to be thought of as a competing with Crystal than with HAL.  That is why they are moving toward including AL in nearly all fares instead of making it optional, as it is at HAL.

I think that X is looking for a different look and attraction to pax in all their brands - X, RCCL and Silversea. They dont want a direct comparison between RCCL prices and X since the product is different .  If they are smart they would look at containing any X suite pax (at those prices) and converting anyone testing out Crystal to go to Silversea.  I think that some people naturally are looking at something different as they get older and SS is the next brand up in the universe.  Its all included over at SS so the "loyalty" free drink crowd isn't interested although the actual value is high at SS 

 

HAL is definitely a value line in every sense of the word and is looking for a branding image to compete with others   X is not looking to compete with that, if anything they want to poach those customers to move up

[terrydtx]

47 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

As does HAL as posted by @terrydtx in #147 here.  The pricing for certain Celebrity suites is sometimes in line with some Crystal or other luxury line offerings.  But it is also often in line with premium suites on other "less premium" mass market lines like Royal C.

When we compared a Sky Suite on similar itineraries with HAL Neptune Suites, the ONLY thing HAL had over a  Sky Suite was size. No real private restaurant, no butler or other amenities like the Retreat. Also on cost per day in most cases Neptune Suites were higher than a Sky Suite. We also compared a Sky Suite and all it's Retreat amenities with Premium lines like Viking Ocean and Oceania and in every case Celebrity was a better value. Oceania was the closest in value to a Sky Suite on some itineraries. Our Baltic cruise next year on the Marina in only a Concierge verandah cabin is about the same cost per day as a similar itinerary in a Celebrity Sky suite, we are doing Oceania  because of the dates that matched up with our Greek cruise following. If Celebrity had a Baltic cruise that matched up we would have gone on them in a Sky Suite. 

 

Going up against Luxury lines like Crystal and Regent, The Retreat is still a way better value and usually thousands less in cost.

[terrydtx]

1 hour ago, tfred said:

I think that some people naturally are looking at something different as they get older and SS is the next brand up in the universe.  Its all included over at SS so the "loyalty" free drink crowd isn't interested although the actual value is high at SS 

We are one of those who have gotten older and retired and want a better experience and higher level of service. In The new Edge class ships the Retreat is really a small ship experience in a large ship. With The Retreat lounge, deck and Luminae all located on decks 12 and higher, there are few instances that a suite passenger needs to venture outside those decks. For us a Celebrity Retreat and occasional Oceania cruise  is the next brand up in our universe with almost everything included in the price. I do not think too many of  Loyalty Free drink crowd are interested in booking in the Retreat because they believe they are not getting the full benefits of their loyalty level. We are Elite and the loyalty perks are an insignificant value to us when we book a suite.

[actuarian]

2 hours ago, tfred said:

 If they are smart they would look at containing any X suite pax (at those prices) and converting anyone testing out Crystal to go to Silversea.  I think that some people naturally are looking at something different as they get older and SS is the next brand up in the universe.  Its all included over at SS so the "loyalty" free drink crowd isn't interested although the actual value is high at SS 

At first I thought that too.  However, I think that many Crystal cruisers would be more amenable to Celebrity than to Silversea.  The vast majority of Crystal cruisers sail on the two larger Crystal ships (the Serenity and the Symphony).  I think most or at least many of the people who cruise on the 525 cabin Crystal Serenity may not really want the Silversea small ship experience with limited shipboard entertainment and may more amenable to the Celebratory Retreat experience than to sailing on a much smaller 304 (or fewer) cabin Silversea ship.  Nevertheless, those Crystal cruisers would almost all book in the Retreat so it might make marketing sense for Celebrity to include AI in all Retreat bookings while making it optional for non-Retreat bookings.

[RollWave]

On 11/7/2021 at 9:44 AM, terrydtx said:

We are one of those who have gotten older and retired and want a better experience and higher level of service. In The new Edge class ships the Retreat is really a small ship experience in a large ship. With The Retreat lounge, deck and Luminae all located on decks 12 and higher, there are few instances that a suite passenger needs to venture outside those decks. For us a Celebrity Retreat and occasional Oceania cruise  is the next brand up in our universe with almost everything included in the price. I do not think too many of  Loyalty Free drink crowd are interested in booking in the Retreat because they believe they are not getting the full benefits of their loyalty level. We are Elite and the loyalty perks are an insignificant value to us when we book a suite.

We are not retired but we are in the demographic that we thought Celebrity was trying to hit with their new way of doing things with the new ships and the all included. It really did not bother me that perhaps the value of Captains Club status had been diluted as we are not part of the loyalty free drink crowd. We always liked Celebrity for the ships, the understated style, and more.

 

We just got off of Constellation's first cruise after the ship's 18 month COVID lockdown/dry dock. It is was beyond disappointing. With the exception of one ore two cruises on RCL all of our cruises have been on Celebrity in the last 15 years. What we did expect for our brand loyalty was to not be placed in a dump of a cabin and when said dump had multiple issues of the safety & sanitary variety that we had to discover...we expected someone from Guest Services or the Captains Club to check in to make sure everything had been satisfactorily resolved. Did not happen.

[graphicguy]

On 11/7/2021 at 9:44 AM, terrydtx said:

We are one of those who have gotten older and retired and want a better experience and higher level of service. In The new Edge class ships the Retreat is really a small ship experience in a large ship. With The Retreat lounge, deck and Luminae all located on decks 12 and higher, there are few instances that a suite passenger needs to venture outside those decks. For us a Celebrity Retreat and occasional Oceania cruise  is the next brand up in our universe with almost everything included in the price. I do not think too many of  Loyalty Free drink crowd are interested in booking in the Retreat because they believe they are not getting the full benefits of their loyalty level. We are Elite and the loyalty perks are an insignificant value to us when we book a suite.

My TA keeps wanting me to try Viking.  When I ask her what sort of entertainment there is, or what sort of activities are available, it sounds more like a Lawrence Welk party than it does a cruise.  IF that’s your thing, I say go for it.

 

 But, I want more than that.  Found the EDGE to be a beautiful ship, with much to do.  Service was great, too.

[terrydtx]

19 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

My TA keeps wanting me to try Viking.  When I ask her what sort of entertainment there is, or what sort of activities are available, it sounds more like a Lawrence Welk party than it does a cruise.  IF that’s your thing, I say go for it.

 

 But, I want more than that.  Found the EDGE to be a beautiful ship, with much to do.  Service was great, too.

We had a Viking Ocean cruise booked in 2020 that was canceled. At the time we booked that cruise full payment was 6 months from departure, which we thought was too far out but acceptable. Now Viking requires full payment at time of booking which could be 24 months out. We looked at a Viking cruise for September 2023 that was almost sold out and if we booked now we would have to pay $15K now.

 

The thought of giving any cruise line $15k to hold for 24 months is just ridiculous and why we will probably never book with them. The people I know who love Viking do so because of the small ships, no passengers under 18, no casinos, and the food. All of these are appealing to us but so is the Celebrity Retreat and Oceania with normal full payment requirements.

Edited November 13, 2021 by terrydtx

[TeeRick]

2 hours ago, RollWave said:

We are not retired but we are in the demographic that we thought Celebrity was trying to hit with their new way of doing things with the new ships and the all included. It really did not bother me that perhaps the value of Captains Club status had been diluted as we are not part of the loyalty free drink crowd. We always liked Celebrity for the ships, the understated style, and more.

 

We just got off of Constellation's first cruise after the ship's 18 month COVID lockdown/dry dock. It is was beyond disappointing. With the exception of one ore two cruises on RCL all of our cruises have been on Celebrity in the last 15 years. What we did expect for our brand loyalty was to not be placed in a dump of a cabin and when said dump had multiple issues of the safety & sanitary variety that we had to discover...we expected someone from Guest Services or the Captains Club to check in to make sure everything had been satisfactorily resolved. Did not happen.

Sorry to see you had cabin issues on Connie.  As a frequent cruiser I have occasionally run into cabin (mostly bathroom) issues.  On multiple ships.  In suites too. Maybe more on older ships.   It happens and it usually gets resolved quickly.  Guest Services should definitely follow up.   But what does this actually have to do with Captain's Club or brand loyalty?  Not sure I understand.

[cruisestitch]

Taking it away from the issues of drinks for a minute, I have saved nearly $200 on my current cruise because of Captains Club benefits, discounts in the hair salon, in the specialty restaurants, and free laundry. It’s not all about the drinks.

[ORV]

On 11/6/2021 at 9:50 PM, actuarian said:

However, Celebrity seems to want to compete in a higher class than HAL, more like Crystal.  A Crystal cruise always includes drinks, tips, wi-fi and specialty dining.  IMHO, the management at Celebrity might prefer to be thought of as a competing with Crystal than with HAL.  That is why they are moving toward including AL in nearly all fares instead of making it optional, as it is at HAL.

Just going AI doesn't make them a luxury line. There are certain parameters that Celebrity just won't meet to be a luxury line. 

[RollWave]

2 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Sorry to see you had cabin issues on Connie.  As a frequent cruiser I have occasionally run into cabin (mostly bathroom) issues.  On multiple ships.  In suites too. Maybe more on older ships.   It happens and it usually gets resolved quickly.  Guest Services should definitely follow up.   But what does this actually have to do with Captain's Club or brand loyalty?  Not sure I understand.

No amount of free drinks, laundry, gelato, or stuff can overcome a basic lack of service to loyal customers. It is easier and less expensive to keep a loyal customer than to churn customers. When a business has a live loyal customer in their "shop" and can not be bothered to check in to see if everything is ok after multiple rounds of maintenance crew have been to the cabin...that is a problem, an indication that loyalty is not valued, and to me a sign that the Captain's Club is dead.

[davekathy]

57 minutes ago, RollWave said:

No amount of free drinks, laundry, gelato, or stuff can overcome a basic lack of service to loyal customers. It is easier and less expensive to keep a loyal customer than to churn customers. When a business has a live loyal customer in their "shop" and can not be bothered to check in to see if everything is ok after multiple rounds of maintenance crew have been to the cabin...that is a problem, an indication that loyalty is not valued, and to me a sign that the Captain's Club is dead.

The curiosity follow-up should be have been extended even if it was your first Celebrity cruise. It has absolutely nothing to do with being a loyal customer, CC member or your tier level. IMO, the Captains Club is not dead. 

[cdn_tbird]

46 minutes ago, RollWave said:

No amount of free drinks, laundry, gelato, or stuff can overcome a basic lack of service to loyal customers. It is easier and less expensive to keep a loyal customer than to churn customers. When a business has a live loyal customer in their "shop" and can not be bothered to check in to see if everything is ok after multiple rounds of maintenance crew have been to the cabin...that is a problem, an indication that loyalty is not valued, and to me a sign that the Captain's Club is dead.

The experience you described should NEVER have happened to anyone regardless of whether you're a loyal customer or a first timer. IMHO, this isn't a loyalty issue, it's a customer service issue that you should be escalating to head office.

 

I think it's a safe bet that had you had this experience on your first X cruise, it could have very well been your last X cruise.

 

While it's important to try and keep loyal customers happy, the reality is that attracting new customers is vital to any company's survival and growth which means that companies will continually evolve their product and some of those changes will make some of the loyalty benefits less valuable.

[teacherman]

IMHO Celebrity is not just competing with other cruise lines right now.   They are also competing with all inclusive resorts, which are plentiful in the Caribbean.  We are scheduled for the Reflection in January and looking forward to it.  But we could do an AI in Mexico or Jamaica for similar price and not have to be concerned with being confined to a small cabin if we were to come down with Covid or some "Covid like" disease.   And the resort would allow us much more outside time for drinking and eating than the ship does. And the test within 2 days of departure creates a little more stress than going to Mexico where no test is currently required.  There is a big difference in people who can drive to the port and those who must fly.  The cost of the cruise increases significantly and so does the logistics and accompanying stress.  We enjoy being on the water, but are going to Jamaica for a week in December.  And that is something we have never done before.  So, after Jamaica in December and the Reflection in January, we will be able to compare and then schedule our next vacations.

[SHIP TRAVELER]

Just a little input from a loyal X Elite cruiser about our very recent experience on the Princess Majestic from LA to the Mex Riviera.  We booked during shut down at a good price.

 

1. Ship new and impressive.  Sailed with 1800 passengers and what felt life a full crew which meant no lines, embarkation was a breeze, good service except one night in MDR.

  

2, Booked a Mini Suite because we hate Princess lower class cabins (no Chair or sofa) close to  sky suite size but also close to X balcony in quality except for large closet and tub.

 

3, Included Princess Plus with Premium Drinks, WiFi and Tips for two.  We were surprised how premium the package was, it included all drinks except a few very expensive wines. I had Knob Creek bourbon. We thought that we would not use the drinks as much as we did.  We kept track, most days we had 6 or 7 drinks but a few times we had 10 or 11.  Sounds like a lot but DH usually limits himself to two Alcoholic drinks a day including one light beer and one wine.  We found that with the specialty coffees (2) OJ (1) Soda (1) and bottled water (2) a day you can push the 15 drink limit if you have cocktails, NA beers, NA smoothies, multiple wines at dinner. We were surprised how fast drinks add up.  Make AI look attractive, enjoyable in MDR.

 

4. Loyalty program.  We are Platinum on Princess (from long ago) and our perks were a welcome back party (no food, just a drink or two) with a short program and a daily Platinum/Elite event in a restricted lounge area.  There was a served appetizer buffet with fancy cheeses, crackers, nuts, dried fruit,veggies with dip and a specialty item.  This went great with a before dinner cocktail.  Hours were 4:30 to 6:30 I think.  Drinks were not free but service was good. Princess Elites were disappointed about the loss of perks.  I think the main remaining perks they have is a free mini bar set up and free laundry.  They never had free drinks at bars as a perk.

 

Things we noticed: Great Towels in the room, Drinks could be ordered on the phone app to be delivered  anywhere including the cabin.  There was lots of sitting areas and LOTS of tables for eating and games. I think this is because the Majestic was designed for the Asian market and they needed Mahjong tables everywhere including the show lounge and the Conservatory where we had happy hour.  It was so nice to have a regular height table instead of a cocktail table with a lamp in the middle of it when you have a plate of food or want to play cards.  The other major thing I noticed was that there was No selling.  No one tried to sell wine tastings, cookbooks, specialty dining, or drink packages,.  No crew member ever approached us to sell anything the entire cruise.

Just wanted to show another main stream experience here.  We have six cruises booked on X in 2022 and are happy about that but this was the most impressive cruise we have ever had on Princess so there are other cruises out there.

Edited November 13, 2021 by SHIP TRAVELER
spelling

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, davekathy said:

The curiosity follow-up should be have been extended even if it was your first Celebrity cruise. It has absolutely nothing to do with being a loyal customer, CC member or your tier level. IMO, the Captains Club is not dead. 

Yes this is what I was trying to get at in my post.  No paying customer whether on a first cruise or a Zenith member or anything in between should be in a problem situation in their cabin without resolution or follow up.  I would actually be quite disappointed if the resolution and follow up was somehow related to my captain's club tier.  I do think however that the follow up might be a bit more direct if in a suite with a butler assigned.  That has been my experience anyway when I have run into cabin issues.  But not loyalty status. 

[Hlitner]

6 hours ago, ORV said:

Just going AI doesn't make them a luxury line. There are certain parameters that Celebrity just won't meet to be a luxury line. 

Some of the posts talk about Celebrity and luxury lines as though they may be comparable.  Perhaps some folks do not understand the differences between a line like Seabourn, Regent, Crystal versus Celebrity.  So for starters you might look at the space ratios (tons divided by total passengers) and you will find that most mass market lines (like Celebrity) are in the 30-42 tons per passenger range.  But luxury lines are generally in the 65 - 75 tons per passenger range which is a good measure of the spaciousness of the ships.  Another good measure is to look at the crew to passenger ratio which is far more favorable on the luxury lines.  As to what is included on luxury lines just consider that on our most recent Seabourn cruise I would often order caviar (while sitting at a bar) and soon have a big portion of decent caviar (with all the fixings) along with my included French Champagne.  On most luxury lines there is also no such thing as a line (queue) for anything!

 

But the waters do get a bit muddy when we look at the new ship within a ship concept (such as with MSCs Yacht Club, Cunard's Grill Suites, and even Celebrity's Suites.  But while Celebrity does now offer a lot of amenities for their more expensive suites it is not truly a ship within a ship.

 

A friend likes to talk about it in simple terms.  She says booking a suite on a line like Celebrity is like having the most expensive home in a middle class neighborhood.  But cruising on a true luxury line is like having an expensive home surrounded by other expensive homes in the most expensive neighborhood.   One can certainly debate what offers the best experience.  We love the luxury lines but also love the mass market lines (perhaps not as much) although we need to alter our expectations.  We have found pros and cons to all the options.  But the luxury lines do tend to spoil folks and it is challenging to go back to the mass market ships and learn not to do comparisons.  

 

Hank

[crusinthrough]

On 11/1/2021 at 1:51 PM, the penguins said:

4) we have cancelled one cruise on X, moved another to Royal and are holding fire on 2023 cruises  in the hope that the AI issue is resolved.

LOL, there is no issue for Celebrity to resolve nor do I think the zillionth Cruise Critic thread on Captain Club benefits will change anything.  

[3red7s]

On 11/1/2021 at 2:08 PM, DCPIV said:

I don't know about Captain's Club, but this horse has been dead for a while.  Yet we continue to flog the poor beast.

 

It's been pretty well established that the ideal solution for the monetary benefits would be to allow the choice between AI and not.  There are some of us Elite and above members that will would find value in the AI bundle and would gladly choose it.  Others may want to buy the packages a la carte or not at all.  

 

As pointed out by others, there are number of non-monetary benefits to being Elite and above, as well.

just got in late on this post....what does AL refer to? Thank you

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, 3red7s said:

just got in late on this post....what does AL refer to? Thank you

It’s AI, always included , Wi-Fi, tips and beverages 

Edited November 14, 2021 by LGW59

[Northern Aurora]

1 minute ago, 3red7s said:

just got in late on this post....what does AL refer to? Thank you

 

 

AI refers to Celebrity's "Always Included" program.