Just off Symphony..Health Violations in Chops followed by Norovirus

[bigeck]

13 hours ago, GarlicBread said:

So I guess in the 33 hours between chops and getting sick, your mother didn't touch or pick up anything, didn't go anywhere, didnt eat or drink anything, didnt talk to anyone, just stayed in her cabin in a state of hibernation? 

That's how your so certain it was chops that got her sick right!

 

Sorry it happened. You're angry and annoyed that your vacation didnt go to plan and you want someone/something to blame....but I dont think its chops...

Maybe not Chops, but after 33 hours it would have been something on the ship.

The happenings in Chops would be a logical explanation.

Not certain unless she got tested

[John&LaLa]

2 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

NSPP doesn’t desriminate based on age. 

 

True, but I thought he made some age descriptions, plus it would reduce the numbers of overall Pins.

[HBE4]

1 hour ago, NewSalt said:

There’s a washing station with multiple sinks on Anthem just inside the entrance to the WJ.  A crew member directs everyone to the sinks. Almost every time we’ve been in there I’ve seen people walk through without washing their hands. It takes a great deal of self-control to prevent the mommy in me from scolding them. 

 

Funny. That was me once or twice. But only because I just came from the mens' room, had washed my hands and touched nothing in between.

 

DW said I should still wash before entering WJ so I don't get dirty looks/scolded. 😃

[Mikew0805]

1 hour ago, nelblu said:

 

 

On Symphony before entering the WJ, you must wash your hands with soap & water.  The Purel is a  waste of time.

 

With regards to firing people without notice, don't jump to unverified conclusions. 

Washing with soap and water is really the only way. The purell kills more than the bad bacteria on your hands, and does next to nothing for most viruses... like Norovirus.

 

 

[ONECRUISER]

3 hours ago, tennislvr8 said:

I went back and re-read those. Again I don't see flaming, I also don't have thin skin. The comment about the age, that was plain idiotic. The others weren't the nicest. 

Agree...

[ChristyS]

8 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

Funny. That was me once or twice. But only because I just came from the mens' room, had washed my hands and touched nothing in between.

 

DW said I should still wash before entering WJ so I don't get dirty looks/scolded. 😃

 

So I actually wash my hands in my room and then don’t touch knobs or buttons without a dry paper towel or napkin. I have had two superinfection caused by overwashing my hands and eleiminationg all the normal germs   so yes I don’t always wash at the buffet   And no one had better scold me - I am an adult

[Germancruiser]

I myself have to appologize - i am the one with the " Hyseric" comment- what I really ment is that peope get more and more hypersensible- due to overdone hygiene. All those Allergies and so such things! The body has not the slightest chance to built any self defense.

Of course when feeding thousands and thousands of people one has to take extra care!

I am quite sure that the mother of the OP did NOT get ill because of that! I am glad she is well again tough!

Not touching doorknobs- and all those things from every day life- totaly overdone- I agree Grandma....!

I hope that I still cruise at the age of 83- if I am still able to do so- or have not lost the rest of my marbles when I make that age!

[Mikew0805]

21 minutes ago, ChristyS said:

 

So I actually wash my hands in my room and then don’t touch knobs or buttons without a dry paper towel or napkin. I have had two superinfection caused by overwashing my hands and eleiminationg all the normal germs   so yes I don’t always wash at the buffet   And no one had better scold me - I am an adult

This is exactly why I wash again after getting my food. 

 

This "over-washing" is another term for dry skin, and sanitizing gels potentiates this. This is how bacteria & viruses get through the skin, because it is damaged. Just washing all the "germs" off your hands will not make you sick. Seems to me like your nursing staff, during this infection, did a lousy job with education. Someone who is hydrated, should have no problem with washing their hands before and after eating, using the restroom, before and after smoking, and as needed when soiled. You can always protect yourself further by using a good moisturizing lotion several times a day. (but not before you touch serving spoons)

[mayleeman]

17 hours ago, azkcruizers said:

Hi. I posted my experience for others to just keep an eye open and because I was just so disappointed.  I'll try to clear a few things up.

This post was a nice contrast from the first. Nice and expositive, no dramatics, much less likely to create the sort of cynical negative replies you got the first time. 

 

Your story about what they said about antibiotics will serve as (yet another) a warning about how doctors overprescribe them. I can see why they were fearful that she might be susceptible to infection if she was weakened by what she was going through, but they might have created more problems for her. Poor mom.

 

I do think it is much more likely that some other source for the virus was likely the cause. There were far more people in contact with you and your family and everything they and you all touched, than there were people in contact with the specific dishes that may have touched your mother's plate. And passengers rarely touch the bottoms of plates but are the likeliest nonhygenic sources. I think it is the one thing you saw that drew your attention, but more likely from some jerk who was careless and touched something one of you did.  (But it was good to tell the staff about the pile-up!)

 

 

[QueenofKrakatoa]

3 hours ago, mayleeman said:

This post was a nice contrast from the first. Nice and expositive, no dramatics, much less likely to create the sort of cynical negative replies you got the first time. 

 

Your story about what they said about antibiotics will serve as (yet another) a warning about how doctors overprescribe them. I can see why they were fearful that she might be susceptible to infection if she was weakened by what she was going through, but they might have created more problems for her. Poor mom.

 

I do think it is much more likely that some other source for the virus was likely the cause. There were far more people in contact with you and your family and everything they and you all touched, than there were people in contact with the specific dishes that may have touched your mother's plate. And passengers rarely touch the bottoms of plates but are the likeliest nonhygenic sources. I think it is the one thing you saw that drew your attention, but more likely from some jerk who was careless and touched something one of you did.  (But it was good to tell the staff about the pile-up!)

 

 

Yes. As someone who has worked in the medical field, they should have never given your mother antibiotics for something viral. This most likely made it worse.

[Ocean Boy]

42 minutes ago, QueenofKrakatoa said:

Yes. As someone who has worked in the medical field, they should have never given your mother antibiotics for something viral. This most likely made it worse.

Do all you medical people around here like your decisions being second guesses by people who don't have all the facts?

[nelblu]

10 hours ago, NewSalt said:

There’s a washing station with multiple sinks on Anthem just inside the entrance to the WJ.  A crew member directs everyone to the sinks. Almost every time we’ve been in there I’ve seen people walk through without washing their hands. It takes a great deal of self-control to prevent the mommy in me from scolding them. 

 

Yes, on all Quantum classes.  On the Symphony Feb. 2 sail, you could not get into the WJ unless you washed your hands.  However, some Pax could fake it, plus there's back exit which some Pax could get into the WJ and while not intentionally possibly avoid the washing stations.

Edited March 12, 2019 by nelblu

[bostonfred]

To OP.....I appreciate your post! Will be on Harmony with our kids and grandkids in April.One of the reasons we cruise is the standard of cleanliness onboard. This should never be compromised. Cruises are one place I have found bartenders use utensils for garnishes. If I get the occasional lapse from the bartender I will refuse the drink. This same high standard should be followed ship wide.

As far as the unnecessary negative replies. Welcome to the new cruise critic. It gets nastier every time I go online. The cheerleaders will attack anyone who criticizes their line. For some reason they are married to the line and don’t see it as a corporate entity with tens of millions of crown and anchor members, of which they are one and not a special one at that.

It has been 2 years since last Royal cruise and we will be diamond status. We anticipate having a great time and being treated royally. In the two previous years between Royal cruises. We have been on Princess, NCL, MSC, and Carnival. All were great as is Royal is.But there is a ton of competition out there and we are in the middle of a ship building frenzy. So, Royal should step up for you in some fashion, otherwise you have a ton of options. MSc will even give you a status match. Hang in there, don’t let the attacks get you down..we are lucky to be cruisers😷😷😎

 

[Paulette3028]

To OP -- glad your mom is feeling better.  No one wants to experience something that they feel is unhealthy.  

 

I have never worked in the food service industry.  The closest I have come to that is having an aunt and uncle own a restaurant.  As my uncle would say to us all 'If you knew what went on behind the scenes of a restaurant, you would NEVER eat out'.  Having said that, I have not stopped eating out.  Dining on a ship is the ultimate of 'dining out' -- every meal, every day for however many days.

 

Your lament is appreciated.  What I find difficult to appreciate is the title of your topic....."Health Violations in Chops followed by Norovirus".

 

I am not a Health Inspector and don't know what restaurants/kitchens onboard ships can and can't do, nor how they normally handle the small areas in the restaurants/dining rooms from which food is served. Did you find the Food and Beverage Manager and discuss the problem with them?  How should food be handled on its way to guests and what was handled in appropriately?  Does it require 'more training' or supervision?  None of my questions will satisfy you....but I have to ask them.

 

  I don't/can't directly make the connection with the norovirus claim....because others on the ship would have come down with it -- it would not have been a 'one off' situation.

 

Clearly the goal of the title was to have it read....and it was and if your goal was to put fear in people cruising, you might have accomplished that.  It is clear you were never satisfied while on the ship with how your issue was handled....maybe you will receive satisfaction after the fact from corporate.  Time will tell.

[leisuretraveler223]

15 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Are you living in Texas?

 

No.  New England, not even close. Where did that come from?

[Itchy&Scratchy]

On 3/11/2019 at 1:10 AM, SakeDad said:

I am also, like you and others, concerned with the antibiotics, which in themselves can cause gastric stress, if not actually needed.

they can cause gastric distress even if they are needed. 

[SRF]

On 3/10/2019 at 11:23 PM, SakeDad said:

For the record, food poisoning or Noro hits you MUCH QUICKER than 33 hours (or 2 days as you said) so I am even more in doubt the dinner was the cause of her distress. You can get Noro from touching elevator buttons, stair rails, bathroom doors and more....but it hits in 12 hours, not 33.

 

 

From CDC:
 

"The average incubation period for norovirus-associated gastroenteritis is 12 to 48 hours, with a median period of approximately 33 hours."

 

 

[blueridgemama]

11 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

they can cause gastric distress even if they are needed. 

 

Lots of medical "experts" on here without the benefit of the facts of this particular situation. Has anyone noticed that the original poster has vacated the premises? But still lots of advice being offered.

[klfhngr]

23 hours ago, tennislvr8 said:

I went back and re-read those. Again I don't see flaming, I also don't have thin skin. The comment about the age, that was plain idiotic. The others weren't the nicest. 

I'm not thin skinned either... I guess this is just the way people speak to one another these days and it's become the norm... 'Say as you please' instead of 'think before you speak'... I'll get off my high horse, lol.... 😉 Any move to another thread.

[Milwaukee Eight]

9 hours ago, leisuretraveler223 said:

 

No.  New England, not even close. Where did that come from?

We know someone who is a Dr out of Texas and we have cruised with. Thought maybe that was you. Sorry 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Milwaukee Eight

[QueenofKrakatoa]

15 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

Do all you medical people around here like your decisions being second guesses by people who don't have all the facts?

Read what you wrote again, but slowly. 

[Ocean Boy]

17 minutes ago, QueenofKrakatoa said:

Read what you wrote again, but slowly. 

What part don't you get? You neither examined the patient nor reviewed the medical record. In fact, you know no facts including what the patient was actually treated with but you know the treatment probably made things worse. With everything you don't know you have no problem second guessing the medical people who were there. Oh but yeah, I forgot, you worked in the medical field. I would have expected a post like yours from someone who did not.

[Loucat]

WOW! Sorry to see the OP post on what was a more than unpleasant experience and so many question her motives and the facts she presents. For those questioning the 33 hour incubation period, check the CDC website for your own viewing pleasure. It contains a wealth of information that aligns with what Karen, the OP explained. There is no evidence of noro "hitting in 12 hours", unless you have a source to quote.

You also will not find a restriction on 83 year olds cruising as there is no basis for that When I reach that age, I hope to cruise too!

If food with left with old food, dirty plates and utensils are in contact with food yet to be served, it is very possible that cross contamination can happen. You do not know what previous diners brought with them and left on their dinnerware. Yes, you can acquire the virus by touching contaminated surfaces. But this food storage/cleaning/staging area is suspect.

Size of the ship is not an excuse for lack of good infection control practices. Size?? We are talking about one of the largest ships in the industry!

Sorry Karen for your cruise experience and hope all in your family are now in good health. I also hope someone at RCCL reads this and looks into this practice.

[xpcdoojk]

17 hours ago, QueenofKrakatoa said:

Yes. As someone who has worked in the medical field, they should have never given your mother antibiotics for something viral. This most likely made it worse.

 

You changed your avatar.

 

hmm...

 

jc

[xpcdoojk]

16 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

Do all you medical people around here like your decisions being second guesses by people who don't have all the facts?

 

OB welcome to CC... where the uninformed and the malinformed post like they are the final answer.

 

I worry more about the latter than the earlier.

 

jc