Does the ships crew really get !00% of the gratuities?

[dogs4fun]

43 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Do you doubt that it happens? I don't. We had one couple that dined with us who said (like a public service announcement) on the 6th night, "you can save over $200 on this cruise, just go to guest services and have them remove the tips".

I don't doubt but I don't know of anyone that has removed the gratuity charge although, several year ago, I believe I read something about removing the charges on the CC forum. I assumed it was a complicated and/or difficult process to have them removed but as it is not something I would consider doing, I have never investigated.

Edited January 3, 2020 by dogs4fun

[sparks1093]

3 minutes ago, dogs4fun said:

I don't doubt but I don't know of anyone that has removed the gratuity charge although, several year ago, I believe I read something about removing the charges CC forum. I assumed it was a complicated and/or difficult process to have them removed but as it is not something I would consider doing, I have never investigated.

As I understand it on most cruise line's it is a simple matter of visiting guest services and making the adjustment. I believe they ask why the adjustment is being made. I understand that NCL once made it very difficult to make the adjustment, going so far as to require the adjustment be made after the cruise by faxing in a form, but I don't know if they have reverted back to their old system.

[dogs4fun]

1 minute ago, sparks1093 said:

As I understand it on most cruise line's it is a simple matter of visiting guest services and making the adjustment. I believe they ask why the adjustment is being made

Interesting - I would assume that not many people remove the charges or am I being naive? 

[sparks1093]

31 minutes ago, dogs4fun said:

Interesting - I would assume that not many people remove the charges or am I being naive? 

Again, I can only go by what I've read on these forums but it can be as high as 10%. 

[sanger727]

1 hour ago, notalandlover said:

 

 

 

I heard lots of people say  the crew has a contract that provides them a guaranteed wage.  Iv'e often wondered if the cruise lines are using the gratuities to pay the  employees contract wage first over the entire fleet.  The crew across the fleet probably get a small percentage of the gratuities back above their contract wage for whatever is left over. 

 

It could be.  Look at it this way. I used to waitress. At that time the minimum wage was around $8 an hour and the minimum wage for tipped employees was around $2 an hour. My employer paid me $2 an hour. If my tips were not sufficient to bring me in total to $8 an hour then I was still legally guaranteed to make that wage and my employer would make up the difference. So would it be altogether different if my employer had charged a service fee and used that to bring my pay up to at least $8 an hour vs tips voluntarily left by customers? Now, I never had that happen, I certainly had shifts where I didn't make $8 an hour but over the course of a pay period it always averaged out above that. If you found yourself not making the $8 an hour and your employer had to cover the difference, my guess if you wouldn't be employed for very long because that would be a statement about the service you provide.

 

I will say that I generally averaged around $12 an hour between lunch services where I walked away with just a few dollars and late night dinner services with parties where I walked away with $200. For me personally, if my employer had agreed to pay me $12 an hour all the time and just charged a service fee to the customers to cover that and then told them they didn't need to tip me; I would have been perfectly happy with that. I also might not have busted my butt quite as hard though...

 

2 hours ago, Nic6318 said:

 

 

I don't understand why people feel that how the companies disperse their money should be of any interest to it's customers (normally). This interest isn't apparant anywhere else. If you are curious about how much you can make working on a cruise ship, then I would suggest you apply. We the customers pay all of the cruise lines employee salaries, not just the waiters or cabin stewards, we are paying the millionaire CEO too. If you see a problem with any aspect of a trip you have taken in the past, then consider a different company in the future. What's that got to do with who is getting the "tips". 

 

I completely agree with you. At the end of the day what I need to know is what my cruise will cost me taking into account tipping anyone that needs to be tipped. The cruise lines now all charge a fee and say everyone is compensated fairly and no one "needs" to be tipped. What happens to the fee past then is really between the cruise line and the employees as far as I'm concerned. The post that said that some is distributed to the employees equally to encourage a group mindset towards policing service and then a bit is set aside for projects the crew votes on sounds perfectly reasonable to me. But if the crew isn't getting paid/treated well in  comparison to what another cruise line does would result in people jumping to a new line. 

Edited January 3, 2020 by sanger727

[spookwife]

4 hours ago, dogs4fun said:

Agree - we have never met staff from the US, UK, Canada, Australia, Germany, Norway, Denmark (or any other first world country) working on the ships we have sailed except in the very senior positions (the captain would fall under the senior position category).

Our Disney Cruise I became a regular at the coffee bar attached to the adult only pool.  The bartender there was on his first contract/assignment serving pax.  He was Welsh.  He was doing it to save up enough money to open his own pub at home.  Have seen many other first world countries represented mid level and senior entry level( servers, hotel staff, kids programming,etc). 
 

where you see the majority of third world nations represented are in housekeeping and services( laundry , pool staff, wait staff, kitchen staff). 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, notalandlover said:

 

 

 

I heard lots of people say  the crew has a contract that provides them a guaranteed wage.  Iv'e often wondered if the cruise lines are using the gratuities to pay the  employees contract wage first over the entire fleet.  The crew across the fleet probably get a small percentage of the gratuities back above their contract wage for whatever is left over. 

The crew, by law, are entitled to a minimum wage, which is currently $625/month for a 40 hour work week, or about $3.60 an hour.  Hours worked over 40 in a 7 day period (and crew typically work 84-98 hours per week) are calculated at 125% of that base wage, or $4.50/hour for overtime.  Now, they are not actually paid by the hour, but the calculations done here are used to calculate their monthly salary (4.35 weeks/month x 40 hours/week x $3.60 + 4.35 weeks/month x 44 hours/week OT x $4.50 = $1483/month).  Now, the crew contract calls out how much of this is in "defined salary" and how much is paid via "DSC (daily service charge)".  As long as the amount of DSC that is removed by passengers does not bring their pay below the $625/month figure, the cruise line does not have to do anything, so the minimum wage can vary between $1483 to $625 per month, depending on how much DSC is removed.  DSC makes up typically 80+% of the salary, so the "defined salary" is lower than $625/month.  If the amount of DSC removed lowers the monthly pay to below $625, then the cruise line has to pony up the balance to make up the $625.  The cruise line can choose to pay more than the minimum wage, and do for many of the DSC pool crew, but again it is made up mostly of DSC, with a small "defined salary".  Each ship is it's own profit center, meaning revenue from DSC and other sources goes to pay that ship's expenses (crew salary, etc) and is not spread around the fleet, except that net profits go to the corporate entity.

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, spookwife said:

Our Disney Cruise I became a regular at the coffee bar attached to the adult only pool.  The bartender there was on his first contract/assignment serving pax.  He was Welsh.  He was doing it to save up enough money to open his own pub at home.  Have seen many other first world countries represented mid level and senior entry level( servers, hotel staff, kids programming,etc). 
 

where you see the majority of third world nations represented are in housekeeping and services( laundry , pool staff, wait staff, kitchen staff). 

We spent some time with a bartender from Croatia who told us he was only going to do that cruise and one more because after six cruises he could pay for his dream house.

[davekathy]

14 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

I saw today that both Carnival and Celebrity were raising their gratuities in 2020.  Celebrity will now have a 20% gratuity which when they raise the prices of their drinks will hit you twice.  That means a $15 drink will nick you $3.00 extra.  I find it difficult to believe with all the drinks a bartender serves that the cruise line passes on the full 20%.  Does anyone know if the cruise lines do indeed pass along 100% of the "gratuities" they collect or do they skim the pot?

That 20% gratuity for all beverages on Celebrity went into effect last year. Starting 6 January 2020 the daily gratuity rate for the other services went from $14.50 PPPD to $15.50 PPPD for inside, ocean view and balcony class staterooms. For Concierge and Aquaclass staterooms it went from $15.00 PPPD to $16.00 PPPD. For Suite class staterooms it went from $18.00 PPPD to $19.00 PPPD.

We don't concern ourselves with how much the cruise line pays their employees. 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by davekathy

[awhcruiser]

3 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

IDo you doubt that it happens? I don't. We had one couple that dined with us who said (like a public service announcement) on the 6th night, "you can save over $200 on this cruise, just go to guest services and have them remove the tips".

I know it happens and don't agree with it.

[NLH Arizona]

3 hours ago, dogs4fun said:

Interesting - I would assume that not many people remove the charges or am I being naive? 

A poster posted some time ago that her child works for NCL and hates cruising out of Southampton, because so many remove the DSC and they only make the minimum, which is their contract rate.

[MicCanberra]

9 hours ago, SRF said:

 

But they also work 10 hours per day.  7 days a week.  For 6 - 9 months.

 

And their "pay" is quite low. 

 

Still want the job?  Then apply and get one.  Then come back and tell us how it worked out.

 

Remember, you seldom see people from first world countries working these jobs.  The pay is good based on 3rd world pay rates, but not first world pay rates.

Great point, there is a reason why staff from the 1st world countries are on salaries.

[MicCanberra]

6 hours ago, awhcruiser said:

Are you speaking from personal experience?

Yes and no, while I have never removed the tips from our cruise. I do know people who have and I have seen others do it while at guest services desk, and of course there are the ones that say they do it here on CC.

 

I do not want to get into a nationality stereotype as IME it is people from all countries that cruise, but they tend to have differing reasons for doing it. Some remove them as they just do not want to pay it, some remove them because of their ideology, they do not want to support that sort of pay structure, and some remove them as they feel they can redistribute the tips better than the cruise line can.

[MicCanberra]

2 hours ago, davekathy said:

We don't concern ourselves with how much the cruise line pays their employees. 

 

 

100% agree, IMO, it is what it is, if I don't like the price I don't book the cruise.

[GUT2407]

What I find amazing is so many seem to be unable unwilling to do the maths,

 

one line may be cruise+ taxes + gratuities

 

another one flat price including all the above

 

not to mention various perks, excursions, drinks, specialty restaurants, OBC, etc

 

Surely you do the calculations and work out what is best for you, if you are really fooled into thinking you are getting a bargain because it is a low fare with add ons, the old saying about a fool and his money holds true.

[ilikeanswers]

5 hours ago, sanger727 said:

But if the crew isn't getting paid/treated well in  comparison to what another cruise line does would result in people jumping to a new line. 

 

I would like to think that money I hand over is going to have a positive impact. I wouldn't want my money going to support something that is illegal or immoral. It is like people who choose free range eggs because they worry how chickens are treated. If I found out a cruise line was doing something dodgy then I probably would avoid them because I would not want my money being used to continue a practice I did not agree with. 

[retiredgram]

7 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Do you doubt that it happens? I don't. We had one couple that dined with us who said (like a public service announcement) on the 6th night, "you can save over $200 on this cruise, just go to guest services and have them remove the tips".

We were sitting in the Diamond lounge one evening, and a couple we were talking to said the first thing they do when they embark is to stop by Guest Services and have the auto tips taken off. We were surprised they told us this since nothing had been mentioned about tipping.

[Hlitner]

We have long thought (and posted) that the situations with auto gratuities was our of control.  Until the cruise lines started auto grats, passengers would tip usually based on "guidelines" suggested by the cruise lines.  We would get a group of envelopes (labeled by position such as cabin steward, waiter, etc) and then it was up to the generosity of passengers to put money in the envelopes and directly hand them to the appropriate crew members.  Auto Tips started when assigned dining tables (and times) started to fade away and the cruise lines had to find a way to handle tips for the dining staff.  

 

But here is the problem!  Passengers pay these tips but we are not give information on exactly how the tips (that we pay) are allocated!  In fact, some crew members have told us that they are prohibited from talking about the subject and any violation will result in them being dismissed!   Why the secret?  Since we are paying we should know exactly how the money is allocated.  But cruise lines do not want us to know that some of that money goes to other crew who do not provide direct service to passengers.  And they do not want us to know that a bad waiter or bad steward will get the same allocation as the best steward or waiter.  The situation is all wrong, but most cruisers (including me) just accept it as the way it is.

 

Personally I like the approach used by several of the luxury cruise lines.  They make it clear that tipping is no necessary and is even discouraged!  But if passengers really want to slip some money to a favorite crew member then its fine.  Or, passengers might decide to give money (or some of their OBC) to a crew welfare fund, the proceeds of which are used for the crew's benefit. For example, some of that money might be used for bonuses,  funding parties (for the crew), etc.   But nobody is pressured to give money to that fund.  In fact, when we were recently on Seabourn it was not even mentioned unless a passenger were to ask.

 

The cruise lines have dug their own hole with the tipping mentality.  The easy solution is to slightly increase fares and completely do away with auto tips and tipping!  Instead, the mass market lines see the tipping game as a way the cruise line can advertise fares that are lower then the real cost!  This is another issue for what I call a Passenger Bill of Rights.  One suggestion is that a prospective customer be able to pull up a real price that includes all those taxes, fees, and even tips.   Unfortunately, consumers are treated like idiots (and many apparently are idiots) with all these games.  Even the hotel industry has jumped on the band wagon with their so-called "resort fees" which is about as stupid as auto tips.   Book a room in Niagara Falls Canada for $200 and you are liable to find that your bill is $300 a night once they add their resort fees, the TIF (Tourist Improvement Fee),  HST (harmonized Sales Tax) etc.  And the USA is even worse with some resort communities imposing outrageous local sales taxes (aimed directly at tourists) on top of the obnoxious Resort Fee.  

 

So we wonder when the cruise lines will start charging another extra charge such as a "ship activity fee" or a "corridor use fee" or a "elevator use fee" etc.  ARGH!   A friend wondered when they will charge us a "tender fee"  (Princess would probably call it a "Water Shuttle Fee") and perhaps charge more money for extra leg room (on the tender) and reserved seating.

 

Hank

[Shmoo here]

3 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

So we wonder when the cruise lines will start charging another extra charge such as a "ship activity fee" or a "corridor use fee" or a "elevator use fee" etc.  ARGH!   A friend wondered when they will charge us a "tender fee"  (Princess would probably call it a "Water Shuttle Fee") and perhaps charge more money for extra leg room (on the tender) and reserved seating.

Please!  Let's not give them any ideas.

[MicCanberra]

6 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

Please!  Let's not give them any ideas.

agreed.

[sparks1093]

16 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

 

 

But here is the problem!  Passengers pay these tips but we are not give information on exactly how the tips (that we pay) are allocated!  In fact, some crew members have told us that they are prohibited from talking about the subject and any violation will result in them being dismissed!   Why the secret?  Since we are paying we should know exactly how the money is allocated.  But cruise lines do not want us to know that some of that money goes to other crew who do not provide direct service to passengers.  And they do not want us to know that a bad waiter or bad steward will get the same allocation as the best steward or waiter.  The situation is all wrong, but most cruisers (including me) just accept it as the way it is.

 

 

Once you've left the tip you have no say in how it is distributed and you have no real knowledge how they are distributed, even in a land based establishment. Sure, Trish is your waitress and presumably the gratuity you leave goes to her, but in many establishments she doesn't get to keep it all. In some establishments the waitstaff is expected to tip out to other staff members. In some establishments the tips are pooled and divided in a way that we, the customer, is not privy to. My attitude is if I am obligated to leave a tip then I do and after that it is outside of my control completely. Some cruise lines do provide a general breakdown of how tips are distributed but they don't go into detail about which employee gets what percentage.

[chengkp75]

27 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

But here is the problem!  Passengers pay these tips but we are not give information on exactly how the tips (that we pay) are allocated!

Hank, I dislike the DSC as much as most passengers and crew.  But, if you accept that the DSC is not a "gratuity", then why do you need information as to how they are allocated?  Do you ask how the basic cruise fare is allocated?  How much is for crew salary, how much is for food and beverage, how much is for fuel, how much is for maintenance?

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Hank, I dislike the DSC as much as most passengers and crew.  But, if you accept that the DSC is not a "gratuity", then why do you need information as to how they are allocated?  Do you ask how the basic cruise fare is allocated?  How much is for crew salary, how much is for food and beverage, how much is for fuel, how much is for maintenance?

As long as the bulk of it goes to Engineering, who could/would complain?😉

[c-boy]

well now old on there H' Carnival and Princess do inform us that our gratuities do go to staff that may or may not provide direct services to passengers, we just have to search for it. Gratuities from passengers is a large part of the of the living wage, making the amounts  each person  should get based on performance arbitrary would be counter productive. This thread has diluted from the original question of an increase from 18% to 20% for bar servers which I understand as not being in the daily gratuity pool.

[davekathy]

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Hank, I dislike the DSC as much as most passengers and crew.  But, if you accept that the DSC is not a "gratuity", then why do you need information as to how they are allocated?  Do you ask how the basic cruise fare is allocated?  How much is for crew salary, how much is for food and beverage, how much is for fuel, how much is for maintenance?

Agree. I just consider gratuities, DSC part of the total price of the cruise.