Toddler Death Law Suit Update

[ONECRUISER]

14 minutes ago, TMLAalum said:

 

Or go to the infinite verandas ala Celebrity's Edge class.

FWIW I did not care for the infinite veranda for a variety of reasons. Open air balconies are my preference so I wouldn't like screens either. 

 

PS- Finally- with this post I made the 5k Club on Cruise Critic- time to celebrate🥂!

Congrats!

[frank808]

Still can not believe the society we live in nowadays. The mantra is "never my fault. Someone else should have prevented this from happening."

What ever happened to accepting responsibility for your actions? In this new society, it is always blame someone else besides yourself. Tell grandpa to look in the mirror first before playing the "victim". Only victim was the innocent child.

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[njkruzer]

1 minute ago, frank808 said:

Still can not believe the society we live in nowadays. The mantra is "never my fault. Someone else should have prevented this from happening."

What ever happened to accepting responsibility for your actions? In this new society, it is always blame someone else besides yourself. Tell grandpa to look in the mirror first before playing the "victim". Only victim was the innocent child.

Sent from my SM-T377P using Tapatalk
 

So true.

[voyager70]

3 minutes ago, frank808 said:

Still can not believe the society we live in nowadays. The mantra is "never my fault. Someone else should have prevented this from happening."

What ever happened to accepting responsibility for your actions? In this new society, it is always blame someone else besides yourself. Tell grandpa to look in the mirror first before playing the "victim". Only victim was the innocent child.

Sent from my SM-T377P using Tapatalk
 

 

You're exactly right.  Sadly.

 

[grapau27]

6 minutes ago, voyager70 said:

 

You're exactly right.  Sadly.

 

+1.

[Ocean Boy]

 "turn their focus to mourning Chloe and fighting for cruise passenger safety by raising awareness about the need for all common carriers to adhere to window fall prevention laws designed to protect children from falling from windows," the lawyer said in a statement.

 

Lets see, when I am standing up my shoulders are at the bottom of those windows and there is a rail to keep you from getting right up against them. I think the cruise lines have done just fine at designing windows that people are not going to mistakenly fall out of. And to the best of my understanding, the purpose of a screen is to keep bugs out.

[GeeDunk]

If I am recalling the Time Line correctly ----

 

Incident happened on Sunday.

 

Lawyer contacted on Monday.

 

RCL sued on Tuesday.

[Baron Barracuda]

3 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

the value of RC is much less now than it was when this began, I don’t think there is much possibility at all of them writing a check to make this go away. 

Not that it matters, but wouldn't be Royal writing the check, it would be their insurance company,

[not-enough-cruising]

14 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Not that it matters, but wouldn't be Royal writing the check, it would be their insurance company,

Possibly, but large companies like this are very often self insured

[njkruzer]

42 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Not that it matters, but wouldn't be Royal writing the check, it would be their insurance company,

Even if not self insured there is probably a large deductible,  i.e., amount before insurance applies.  Most likely comes from a fund they have in reserve.  Still they shouldn't pay anything.   Of course family claims it isn't looking for money, which I don't believe, just changes for safety.   Lawyer is definitely looking for money.   And I'm saying this as a lawyer!

[chipmaster]

What a tragedy for all but the lawyers

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/15/us/grandfather-toddler-cruise-ship-death/index.html

 

[BND]

He took a deal to avoid jail time.  No way he would have been found not guilty in a trial.  Guilty plea pretty much closes out the chance of a civil lawsuit having any traction as it puts liability on him.  I don't get the family defending his actions and acting like RCI needs to do anything about safety as we all know the reality.  If he was my  step father and she was my daughter, I'd be done with him.  Forgive him, yes, but that would be about me but I would never be able to be around him again.    Having been on Freedom, I know the reality of the layout and windows, height, etc.  I have always said the only way I could ever fall overboard, being 5'3" is to climb up on the railing since it hits me well above my waist.  At this point, I have trouble feeling sorry for him.  My sympathy is with her. 

[Two Wheels Only]

5 hours ago, chipmaster said:

What a tragedy for all but the lawyers

 

Winkleman has an active imagination, I'll give him that...🙄

 

I'd love for Winkleman to explain how 5'11" Anello couldn't physically stick his head outside past the window frame when so many others (man in black shirt/shorts, the person in the white hoodie with black stripe on the sleeves, the man wearing the black wife-beater who was around the corner of Squeeze, the woman who went to the exact same window that Anello was at, etc.) were able to look outside through the open windows.

 

After the fall, everyone who ran to the windows knew that the window in front of them was open and those who looked out somehow did the "physically impossible" thing that Anello did before he picked Chloe up and extended her to the outside.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Two Wheels Only

[sparks1093]

9 hours ago, BND said:

He took a deal to avoid jail time.  No way he would have been found not guilty in a trial.  Guilty plea pretty much closes out the chance of a civil lawsuit having any traction as it puts liability on him.  I don't get the family defending his actions and acting like RCI needs to do anything about safety as we all know the reality.  If he was my  step father and she was my daughter, I'd be done with him.  Forgive him, yes, but that would be about me but I would never be able to be around him again.    Having been on Freedom, I know the reality of the layout and windows, height, etc.  I have always said the only way I could ever fall overboard, being 5'3" is to climb up on the railing since it hits me well above my waist.  At this point, I have trouble feeling sorry for him.  My sympathy is with her. 

I think he also pleaded guilty because "there was no admission of fact", which means that RCI can't use his plea in defense in the civil suit. Had he been found guilty then that could have been used by RCI in the civil suit. (And he probably also realized that if it went to a jury it wouldn't be easy for him to avoid jail time.)

[S.A.M.J.R.]

38 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

I think he also pleaded guilty because "there was no admission of fact", which means that RCI can't use his plea in defense in the civil suit. Had he been found guilty then that could have been used by RCI in the civil suit. (And he probably also realized that if it went to a jury it wouldn't be easy for him to avoid jail time.)

Can they not use the guilty plea itself?  Sure they can't say Anello admits holding Chloe outside the window, but can't they say he admitted he was guilty of negligent homicide? 

[sparks1093]

21 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Can they not use the guilty plea itself?  Sure they can't say Anello admits holding Chloe outside the window, but can't they say he admitted he was guilty of negligent homicide? 

I doubt that they can, that's one of the reasons plea deals are made- to keep the guilty plea itself out of a civil trial. (Of course I'm not a lawyer so there may be a way that RCI can use this, I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn Express lately.) 

[Oxo]

May God Bless this family and Grant them Peace. They have been through such sorrow. 

[mjkacmom]

17 hours ago, Ashland said:

They don't "need" to demand anything but an apology from the grandpa !!

I hope RCI wins this fight !!

I don’t know them personally, but do you really think grandpa hasn’t apologized?!

[Ocean Boy]

47 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Can they not use the guilty plea itself?  Sure they can't say Anello admits holding Chloe outside the window, but can't they say he admitted he was guilty of negligent homicide? 

I don't think he needs to admit to where he was holding the baby. There seems to be video to settle that issue.

[Ocean Boy]

5 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

I don’t know them personally, but do you really think grandpa hasn’t apologized?!

Now I am confused. He is appologizing when this is all RCI's fault?

[mjkacmom]

Just now, Ocean Boy said:

Now I am confused. He is appologizing when this is all RCI's fault?

If I was standing on the sidewalk holding my granddaughter, and a car came out of nowhere and ran into us, killing her, I would apologize for the rest of my life. In this case, somehow the slimy lawyer has convinced this family the lawsuit makes sense. I don’t think the grandfather meant any harm, it was a very stupid horrible brain fart moment that resulted in the death of a little girl, a tragedy, that I’m sure he has relived over and over again.

[Ocean Boy]

1 minute ago, mjkacmom said:

I don’t think the grandfather meant any harm, 

I don't think that anyone would argue against that point.

[boscobeans]

1 hour ago, Ocean Boy said:

Now I am confused. He is appologizing when this is all RCI's fault?

????????????????? 

Edited October 16, 2020 by boscobeans

[not-enough-cruising]

13 hours ago, BND said:

He took a deal to avoid jail time.  No way he would have been found not guilty in a trial.  Guilty plea pretty much closes out the chance of a civil lawsuit having any traction as it puts liability on him. 

A plea (or a verdict) in a criminal trial is inadmissible in a civil trial (see OJ Simpson)

[PelicanBill]

1 hour ago, Ocean Boy said:

Now I am confused. He is appologizing when this is all RCI's fault?

 

I believe his lawyer said "take the deal" because the photos of him leaning out the window BEFORE dropping his granddaughter means his defense of "I didn't know the window was open" is going to be rejected by any reasonable jury in a criminal trial.

 

I really hope Royal Caribbean takes the civil suit to trial and doesn't settle. Unfortunately these almost always settle.  But the idea that Cruise lines can be held negligent for people circumventing railings and window height or unsupervised children has to stop.

 

I was foreman of a civil suit seeking to determine damages based on negligence.  The instructions to the jury would be to assign % of responsibility to any party identified in the suit. Probably RCL and Grandfather here. You ask what would a reasonable person do?  If 100 grandfathers were watching their grandchildren is it reasonable that many of them would be confused and hold the child OUT the window?  I believe a jury needs to find 100% fault or close to it with the grandfather.  Let's say the jury chooses 90% grandfather 10% RCL. Then the jury determines what the damages should be. Let's say they choose $1M.  That means RCL would be out $100K plus the trial costs.  Or would they offer $500K to make it all go away?