Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[wrk2cruise]

News tonight in NC is saying the state is probably going to move up group 4 by a week starting next week.  This group includes the rest of essential workers and adults of all ages with at least 1 major risk fact.  Things are rolling along here with more supply each week.

[4774Papa]

A few days ago Florida announced that they are opening up to over 60.  Georgia just announced  they were opening up to 55+ starting March 15.  
 

[TeeRick]

21 hours ago, mimbecky said:

I know this is a little off task but with the medical knowledge here and not finding a google explanation, I thought I'd go forward.

If I had a strong immune response when my immune system saw the spike a second time (second Moderna vaccine), won't I have another strong reaction (headache, fever, chills etc) when/if it encounters Covid naturally in the future?  This as opposed to my spouse who when vaccinated a second time had a minimal immune response?  

In other words, if my husband and I are vaccinated but encounter Covid, won't I get all that response again with my immune system while he will just be a little tired?  Doesn't seem like a good thing.

M

Here is a very general (layman's terms) article on the vaccine side effects after dose 1 and dose 2 and goes into a high level general explanation on how the different aspects of your immune system respond.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/03/02/why-second-doses-of-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccines-may-have-more-side-effects/?sh=296a43847910

 

[TeeRick]

There continues to be good science and a lot of information being learned about these vaccines to address some of the earlier open questions.  From yesterday:

 

1)  A published report in the NE J of Medicine.  It looks at the very elevated antibody responses after one dose of an mRNA vaccine in previously infected people.  In this case the viral infection "primed" your immune system just like the first dose would do.  So it is possible that people with previous COVID infections need just one dose of the vaccines.  This will help worldwide vaccine supply if enough health authorities conclude and recommend only one dose in the millions of infected and recovered people.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2101667?query=featured_home

 

2)  Pfizer and BioNTech report (from the Israeli data post vaccination) a few very positive things:

- the vaccine is 94% effective in preventing asymptomatic infections, meaning the vaccine could significantly reduce transmission.

- the vaccine was 97% effective in preventing symptomatic disease, severe disease and death.

- the vaccine is highly effective against the infectious UK variant known as B.1.1.7. More than 80% of the tested Israeli specimens when the analysis was conducted were variant B.1.1.7.

- not enough cases to say anything about the S.Africa variant strain.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-pfizer-israel/pfizer-biontech-say-covid-19-vaccine-likely-to-prevent-asymptomatic-infection-idUSKBN2B31IJ

[TeeRick]

54 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

A few days ago Florida announced that they are opening up to over 60.  Georgia just announced  they were opening up to 55+ starting March 15.  
 

I am glad that states are starting to vaccinate in an age-specific order after the high risk groups are done.  Like in the UK.  The last huge group (16-64 yrs, healthy) needs to be done in the reverse order of age since 60-64 year olds are at much higher risk of severe COVID than 22 year olds.

[TeeRick]

13 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

That's great news! Hopefully one day soon all states will be able to offer the same to their residents.

This bodes well for Alaska cruising!!

[kearney]

14 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Unfortunately, the CDC Conditional Sailing Order was issued before there were any vaccines available and a lot has changed since Oct 31, 2020.

I was actually referring to the Interim Public Health Recommendations for Fully Vaccinated People issued March 8... hoping that CDC will adjust their recommendations to be consistent with the latest guidelines.... assuming everyone on board is vaccinated. The only modification that might be necessary...is what to do in port of a foreign port... will masks be needed there. I just hope the CDC doesn't keep their restrictive procedures for cruises... I see that the CEO of Royal has asked their health panel to review the plans they laid out before vaccines.   I don't know about you..but the thought of spending the day wearing a mask while inside... very unappealing 

[TeeRick]

17 hours ago, kearney said:

I have just recently started back up on cruise critic.... too depressed to think about cruising...until recently. Anyway.... I wonder.... do you think the CDC would allow cruise ships to follow the CDC guidance for those fully vaccinated? In other words... once all passengers and crew are vaccinated... we can essentially go back to normal... except perhaps in port...where masks etc. might still be required in different countries.... I am attaching a link to their guidance. It seems to me that if friends and family who are fully vaccinated can get together mask free... cruise ships should be able to do so as well..so long as everyone...including crew have been vaccinated.... Hopefully, cruise lines can vaccinate their people the way some companies are....CDC guidance for those fully vaccinated. My apologies  if this has been fully discussed before...

So you did not read over 3500 previous posts on this thread??😀

 

The straight answer is that there is no recent guidance or updates from the CDC on resumption of cruising.  Not since the vaccines were authorized and now 96 million doses administered in the USA. 

 

I am mostly of the mindset that the CDC is waiting just a bit before updating us on cruises and travel to fully understand the impact of the vaccines.  Besides they are a bit busy these days with non-cruising issues.  But I think the cruises will go initially later this year with fully vaccinated passengers and crew.  Probably no masks on the ship required.  But masks and social distancing in most ports for quite some time.  My opinion.

[mimbecky]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

Here is a very general (layman's terms) article on the vaccine side effects after dose 1 and dose 2 and goes into a high level general explanation on how the different aspects of your immune system respond.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/03/02/why-second-doses-of-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccines-may-have-more-side-effects/?sh=296a43847910

 

 

Thanks for the article.  Informative and quite amusing at the same time. 😁

M

[Ken the cruiser]

1 hour ago, kearney said:

I was actually referring to the Interim Public Health Recommendations for Fully Vaccinated People issued March 8... hoping that CDC will adjust their recommendations to be consistent with the latest guidelines.... assuming everyone on board is vaccinated. The only modification that might be necessary...is what to do in port of a foreign port... will masks be needed there. I just hope the CDC doesn't keep their restrictive procedures for cruises... I see that the CEO of Royal has asked their health panel to review the plans they laid out before vaccines.   I don't know about you..but the thought of spending the day wearing a mask while inside... very unappealing 

Hopefully CDC will update their technical instructions for cruise ships with passengers operating in US waters in the very near future. One can hope anyway. Here's the latest I was able to find which is as of March 9th.

 

Crew Disembarkations through Commercial Travel | CDC

 

For us, we just love to cruise and any requirements levied to get us back to getting spoiled on the high seas again is OK with us. But, I personally believe it's going to come down to "flattening the curve" and getting a very significant number of folks in the US vaccinated. That's why I continue to monitor this link among others every morning.

 

Have we flattened the curve in the US? - Johns Hopkins (jhu.edu)

 

[K.T.B.]

22 hours ago, nocl said:

In California the pharmacies like CVS are not requiring you to be resident in the counties in which they are located have you tried to get an appointment at one in Kane, McHenry, or Dekalb county for example.

 

 

 

In Illinois, if you do not live in that particular county, you cannot get a vaccination.  Mainly because people who live in Cook have tried travelling there to get vaccinated.  Doses are limited, so they're making sure locals get it first.  However, Cook has more than enough to go to 1b+, but it's not for some odd reason.

[paulh84]

13 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

In Illinois, if you do not live in that particular county, you cannot get a vaccination.  Mainly because people who live in Cook have tried travelling there to get vaccinated.  Doses are limited, so they're making sure locals get it first.  However, Cook has more than enough to go to 1b+, but it's not for some odd reason.

 

In the southern part of Illlinois many of the pharmacies chains will vaccinate people from anywhere. Many from Missouri have come over since their own distribution 'plan' left Kansas City and St. Louis metros out in the cold.

[bEwAbG]

1 hour ago, K.T.B. said:

 

In Illinois, if you do not live in that particular county, you cannot get a vaccination.  Mainly because people who live in Cook have tried travelling there to get vaccinated.  Doses are limited, so they're making sure locals get it first.  However, Cook has more than enough to go to 1b+, but it's not for some odd reason.

 

Is that what the state health department is saying?  Or is that what people are experiencing at the pharmacy?  I would double-check with the pharmacies directly to be sure.  I know in VA there was some consternation because the state wanted CVS to use the existing priority list that everyone had to sign up for and CVS corporate basically said "thanks, but we're doing our own thing."  They are only vaccinating those eligible in whatever the current group is, but it's first-come, first-serve within their sign-up mechanism with no limit on location.  The state & local health departments are asking people to call them if they get a CVS appointment and no longer need to be on the list.  

[K.T.B.]

1 hour ago, paulh84 said:

 

In the southern part of Illlinois many of the pharmacies chains will vaccinate people from anywhere. Many from Missouri have come over since their own distribution 'plan' left Kansas City and St. Louis metros out in the cold.

 

It depends on the pharmacy.  Walgreens won't, Osco will.  Unfortunately, Osco has no appointments, while Walgreens does.  Again.... frustration.

 

Also, CVS is not following Illinois being at 1b+, they're "stuck" at 1b.

Edited March 11, 2021 by K.T.B.

[nocl]

3 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

In Illinois, if you do not live in that particular county, you cannot get a vaccination.  Mainly because people who live in Cook have tried travelling there to get vaccinated.  Doses are limited, so they're making sure locals get it first.  However, Cook has more than enough to go to 1b+, but it's not for some odd reason.

In CA the county run sites require residency, pharmacy locations require compliance with the eligibility status, but allows crossing of county lines.  Might try a pharmacy site and see if it will take your zip code, but let you take an appointment in a nearby county.

[ipeeinthepool]

2 hours ago, bEwAbG said:

 

Is that what the state health department is saying?  Or is that what people are experiencing at the pharmacy?  I would double-check with the pharmacies directly to be sure.  I know in VA there was some consternation because the state wanted CVS to use the existing priority list that everyone had to sign up for and CVS corporate basically said "thanks, but we're doing our own thing."  They are only vaccinating those eligible in whatever the current group is, but it's first-come, first-serve within their sign-up mechanism with no limit on location.  The state & local health departments are asking people to call them if they get a CVS appointment and no longer need to be on the list.  

 

The rules that the pharmacies follow depend on the source of their vaccine.  If the pharmacy gets it's vaccine from the state, they usually need to follow the state rules.  If the pharmacy gets their vaccine from a Federal program then they follow a different set of rules.  CVS, Rite Aid and maybe Walgreens are likely part of the Federal program.  

[D C]

4 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

The rules that the pharmacies follow depend on the source of their vaccine.  If the pharmacy gets it's vaccine from the state, they usually need to follow the state rules.  If the pharmacy gets their vaccine from a Federal program then they follow a different set of rules.  CVS, Rite Aid and maybe Walgreens are likely part of the Federal program.  

Aren't the federal programs exclusively focused on long term care? 

 

 

[nocl]

8 minutes ago, D C said:

Aren't the federal programs exclusively focused on long term care? 

 

 

The feds have the supply contracts with the manufacturers, some they allocate to the states for the states to control distribution. They can route other product through pharmaceutical companies if they so choose.

Edited March 12, 2021 by nocl

[dreaminofcruisin]

22 minutes ago, D C said:

Aren't the federal programs exclusively focused on long term care? 

 

 

 

As of March 2nd, it also includes teachers:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/retail-pharmacy-program/index.html

 

 

[D C]

52 minutes ago, nocl said:

The feds have the supply contracts with the manufacturers, some they allocate to the states for the states to control distribution. They can route other product through pharmaceutical companies if they so choose.

 

38 minutes ago, dreaminofcruisin said:

 

As of March 2nd, it also includes teachers:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/retail-pharmacy-program/index.html

 

 

Thanks. 

In Michigan, the state website lists doses received along with how many of those have been router to the federal LTC program, which was administered by the national pharmacy brands. That seemed like an exclusive channel for LTC. 

[nocl]

Another issue with AZ

 

More European nations pause AstraZeneca vaccine use as blood clot reports investigated

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/11/europe/astrazeneca-vaccine-denmark-suspension-intl/index.html

[K.T.B.]

Posting this only for information, not anything politcal:  https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/11/politics/joe-biden-one-year-covid-address/index.html

[jagoffee]

14 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

In Illinois, if you do not live in that particular county, you cannot get a vaccination.  Mainly because people who live in Cook have tried travelling there to get vaccinated.  Doses are limited, so they're making sure locals get it first.  However, Cook has more than enough to go to 1b+, but it's not for some odd reason.

This has certainly not been the case. You can get appointments at Walgreen’s and Meijer’s  across 

different counties.  Same for Advocate Aurora Hospital group. Other locations as well.   I know people who have appointments in different counties just this last weekend.  I did read recently that the site set up at the United center has been changed to  allow only Cook County residents.  
Good luck getting your vaccine.

[yorky]

6 hours ago, nocl said:

Another issue with AZ

 

More European nations pause AstraZeneca vaccine use as blood clot reports investigated

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/11/europe/astrazeneca-vaccine-denmark-suspension-intl/index.html

I see reports already stating this is no higher than would be expected in the general population without a vaccine.

[hawkesbaynz]

I have seen patients with surprising presentations of DVTs post Covid infections in primary care. PEs are a major cause of associated death to Covid 19.

 

I think that the EU nations just have a bee in their bonnet about the Astra Zeneca vaccine!