Meeting with VP and Cruise Industry Happening Today

[Iamcruzin]

1 hour ago, Baron Barracuda said:

 

Before embarrassing yourself with rants like this maybe you should check with those who actually fly for a living.  No one is more at risk than flight attendants.  See no sign of panic or alarm from them or their very powerful union (AFA).  Airline workers actually have lower covid rate than the general population.  Sadly can't say that about cruise lines.

 

 https://www.businessinsider.com/airline-workers-covid-rates-is-flying-safe-2020-9 

From what I have seen and heard the airlines do a very good job of sanitizing the planes between flights. To add people are back to commuting on trains which in my opinion aren't as safe as flying in a plane and New York is still under control. Between the train, busses or subways some are commuting 60-90 minutes daily depending on where they live. I think flying is less of a risk. How anyone can compare a few hours in a plan to a week long cruise is beyond me. Apples to oranges. I won't cruise with people who have that mentality. They are the ones who will be wearing the masks under their chin.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Iamcruzin

[voyager70]

9 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

From what I have seen and heard the airlines do a very good job of sanitizing the planes between flights. To add people are back to commuting on trains which in my opinion aren't as safe as flying in a plane and New York is still under control. Between the tain, busses or subways some are commuting 60-90 minutes daily depending on where they live. I think flying is less of a risk. How anyone can compare a few hours in a plan to a week long cruise is beyond me. Apples to oranges. I won't cruise with people who have that mentality. They are the ones who will be wearing the masks under their chin.

 

I concur.  We're flying to Florida next week and feel comfortable with a 3 hour flight, considering all the safety measures airlines have put in place.  And of course we will be wearing our masks in an appropriate way.

 

[ONECRUISER]

4 hours ago, Bobal said:

 

Actually there are statistics out there if you google them.

 

There was an an article in a respected UK newspaper (The Daily Telegraph) posted only this week. I won't post the link as it's behind a paywall but have copied and pasted it below:

 

Only '44 cases' of Covid-19 traced back to air travel, report finds

The risk of catching Covid-19 on board a plane is similar to that of being struck by lightning, a top aviation official has claimed.

The CEO of the International Air Travel Association (IATA), Alexandre de Juniac, also insisted that, while flying is not ‘risk-free’, a plane cabin is significantly safer than other indoor environments when it comes to transmission of the virus.

A new study by IATA has found that just 44 cases of potential coronavirus infections have been traced back to flights since the start of 2020, a tiny proportion of the 1.2 billion people who have travelled by air in the same time period.

Of those confirmed cases, the majority were reported early in the year, before the use of face masks by crew and passengers became common practice.

Citing three separate computational fluid dynamics (CFD) tests conducted by aircraft manufacturer Airbus, Boeing and Embraer, the association’s medical researchers have concluded that a number of environmental factors contribute to making viral transmission far less likely in a plane cabin, including High Efficiency Particulate Air filters, the downward flow of air from overhead ventilators, and the natural barriers provided by seats.

Following their respective experiments, both Airbus and Boeing have gone so far as to state that two passengers sitting side by side on board a plane has a comparable transmission risk to two people standing six or seven feet apart in an office.

“There is no single silver-bullet measure that will enable us to live and travel safely in the age of Covid-19,” said Alexandre de Juniac, IATA’s Director General and CEO. 

“But the combination of measures that are being put in place is reassuring travelers the world over that Covid-19 has not defeated their freedom to fly. Nothing is completely risk-free. But with just 44 published cases of potential inflight Covid-19 transmission among 1.2 billion travelers, the risk of contracting the virus on board appears to be in the same category as being struck by lightning.” 

His comments coincide with another report released by aviation analyst OAG, based on a survey of more than 4,000 people, which found that almost 70 per cent of respondents have plans to fly internationally within the next six months.

While 40 per cent of travellers are more concerned about catching the coronavirus in-flight than on any other part of their trip (including at the airport or at their destination), 76 per cent also believe that mandatory use of face masks by passengers and staff is the most effective way to ease fears.

 

 

Agree. Fly 20+ times a yr with 8-10 times on Allegiant. Though were late only stating requiring Masks in mid July right from the start they haven't filled planes. Last 3 Flights in my usual Exit Window seat next rest was blocked with nobody else in my row. Except one time on a new Plane first day flying Passengers I've never seen them Clean as now

[Tree_skier]

4 hours ago, Tapi said:

bigrednole:

 

It's not a dumb statement whatsoever. By now, an overwhelming amount of data and research has confirmed that flying is safer than most activities on land. As pointed out on a previous post, the environment aboard a pressurized airplane (forced vertical airflow, high grade filtration systems, and air that's replaced every 2-3 minutes) is far cleaner and more sterile than in your own home. 

 

I've been flying on a weekly basis during the entire pandemic, and I'm not only satisfied, but I'm also impressed with all the procedures and protocols in place. Personally, I feel far safer flying than going to my local grocery store. Even with the extensive amount of flying that I've been doing, I have thankfully remained covid free during the entire pandemic. It's not by chance. The safety measures do work. 

 

Concerning your comment concerning that what's happening is because of someone on an airplane: Yes, someone infected had to fly to get here and spread the virus. But there's zero evidence, from that person or from anybody else who has flown sick, that they spread the virus DURING the flight. With all protocols currently in place, statistically the chance of that happening are very low. 

If this is so then flying to the cruise port is no issue at all then. 

[time4u2go]

22 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

If this is so then flying to the cruise port is no issue at all then. 

Exactly. 

[Tapi]

22 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

If this is so then flying to the cruise port is no issue at all then. 

Flying would not be the one thing keeping me from cruising. After flying so much during the pandemic, flying has become as routine as driving my car for me. 

[orville99]

2 hours ago, danv3 said:

 

You have to look at rates per 1,000...we in the US are doing significantly worse than Europe (even with Europe's rising case numbers).

Actually not quite correct. Latest data from Johns Hopkins:

 

[Baron Barracuda]

1 hour ago, Tree_skier said:

If this is so then flying to the cruise port is no issue at all then. 

 

Have no issue aboard plane, airlines existence at stake so taking this very seriously.  Not so comfortable with terminals.  Read report recently about outfit testing terminal cleanliness (believe it was JFK) by making marks with invisible marker on seats, counters, moving walkways, rest rooms, etc.  Marks should have easily wiped away during cleaning.  Testers returned two weeks later wearing special goggles and many marks were still visible.

[livingonthebeach]

Here's a summary of the meeting:

Readout from the Vice President’s Call with U.S. Cruise Industry

 HEALTHCARE

 

 Issued on: October 9, 2020
 

Vice President Mike Pence today led a call with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Dr. Robert Redfield; Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Alex Azar; former Utah Governor and HHS Secretary Mike Leavitt of the Healthy Sail Panel; and executives of the cruise line industry to discuss the impacts of the Coronavirus on the cruise line industry and the maritime economy, the CDC’s No Sail Order, and the Cruise Lines International Association and Healthy Sail Panel’s proposal to resume sailing operations in a safe and responsible manner. The recommendations from the Healthy Sail Panel recently received industry-wide adoption.

 

Vice President Pence gave a brief overview of the current state of the No Sail Order and highlighted the shared goal of reopening the maritime economy, with a focus on the cruise line industry safely sailing again. Pence thanked Governor Leavitt, Co-Chair of the Healthy Sail Panel, and the cruise line executives for conducting an industry-driven effort that focuses on the health outcomes.

 

HHS Secretary Azar and CDC Director Redfield touched on their commitment to the collaborative effort that produced the Healthy Sail Panel’s 74 recommendations, and the Federal government’s support of the industry to safely and responsibly sail again, but cautioned that the cruise industry would have to backstop their venture to resume operations.

 

Governor Leavitt provided an overview of how the Healthy Sail Panel approached their report and recommendations, and emphasized that the industry was driven by producing real solutions without economic restraints, which did not result in market participants competing on safety. Leavitt indicated that the output needed to be practical and prioritized safety.

 

Together, the industry executives thanked the Trump Administration for its collaborative approach and support, and stressed that this process and proposal introduces accountability and standards that will ensure cruise ship passengers are in a safe and healthy environment.

The proposal will be presented to the Task Force in order to provide a recommendation to President Donald J. Trump with regard to next steps on the CDC’s No Sail Order.

 

Participants:
-Governor Mike Leavitt (Co-Chair, Healthy Sail Panel)
-Arnold Donald (CEO, Carnival Corporation)
-Frank Del Rio (President & CEO, Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings)
-Richard Fain (Chairman & CEO, Royal Caribbean Group)
-Thomas Malzoum (President, Disney Signature Experience)
-Pierfrancesco Vago (Executive Chairman, MSC Cruises)

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/readout-vice-presidents-call-u-s-cruise-industry/?utm_source=link

Edited October 10, 2020 by livingonthebeach

[PelicanBill]

ugh. this was a courtesy meeting just to get on the agenda with the task force at a future date.

 

This could be significant. What does Backstop their venture really mean?

HHS Secretary Azar and CDC Director Redfield touched on their commitment to the collaborative effort that produced the Healthy Sail Panel’s 74 recommendations, and the Federal government’s support of the industry to safely and responsibly sail again, but cautioned that the cruise industry would have to backstop their venture to resume operations.

 

[A&L_Ont]

3 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

ugh. this was a courtesy meeting just to get on the agenda with the task force at a future date.

 

This could be significant. What does Backstop their venture really mean?

HHS Secretary Azar and CDC Director Redfield touched on their commitment to the collaborative effort that produced the Healthy Sail Panel’s 74 recommendations, and the Federal government’s support of the industry to safely and responsibly sail again, but cautioned that the cruise industry would have to backstop their venture to resume operations.

 

@chengkp75 your thoughts on this. I think I might know but I do t want to guess. 

[time4u2go]

25 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Here's a summary of the meeting:

Readout from the Vice President’s Call with U.S. Cruise Industry

 HEALTHCARE

 

 Issued on: October 9, 2020
 

Vice President Mike Pence today led a call with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Dr. Robert Redfield; Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Alex Azar; former Utah Governor and HHS Secretary Mike Leavitt of the Healthy Sail Panel; and executives of the cruise line industry to discuss the impacts of the Coronavirus on the cruise line industry and the maritime economy, the CDC’s No Sail Order, and the Cruise Lines International Association and Healthy Sail Panel’s proposal to resume sailing operations in a safe and responsible manner. The recommendations from the Healthy Sail Panel recently received industry-wide adoption.

 

Vice President Pence gave a brief overview of the current state of the No Sail Order and highlighted the shared goal of reopening the maritime economy, with a focus on the cruise line industry safely sailing again. Pence thanked Governor Leavitt, Co-Chair of the Healthy Sail Panel, and the cruise line executives for conducting an industry-driven effort that focuses on the health outcomes.

 

HHS Secretary Azar and CDC Director Redfield touched on their commitment to the collaborative effort that produced the Healthy Sail Panel’s 74 recommendations, and the Federal government’s support of the industry to safely and responsibly sail again, but cautioned that the cruise industry would have to backstop their venture to resume operations.

 

Governor Leavitt provided an overview of how the Healthy Sail Panel approached their report and recommendations, and emphasized that the industry was driven by producing real solutions without economic restraints, which did not result in market participants competing on safety. Leavitt indicated that the output needed to be practical and prioritized safety.

 

Together, the industry executives thanked the Trump Administration for its collaborative approach and support, and stressed that this process and proposal introduces accountability and standards that will ensure cruise ship passengers are in a safe and healthy environment.

The proposal will be presented to the Task Force in order to provide a recommendation to President Donald J. Trump with regard to next steps on the CDC’s No Sail Order.

 

Participants:
-Governor Mike Leavitt (Co-Chair, Healthy Sail Panel)
-Arnold Donald (CEO, Carnival Corporation)
-Frank Del Rio (President & CEO, Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings)
-Richard Fain (Chairman & CEO, Royal Caribbean Group)
-Thomas Malzoum (President, Disney Signature Experience)
-Pierfrancesco Vago (Executive Chairman, MSC Cruises)

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/readout-vice-presidents-call-u-s-cruise-industry/?utm_source=link

Yawn 

[livingonthebeach]

Just now, time4u2go said:

Yawn 

 

Yawn and keep yawning all you want.  It's a step in the right direction.  Would you have preferred no call at all?  

[time4u2go]

19 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Yawn and keep yawning all you want.  It's a step in the right direction.  Would you have preferred no call at all?  

I would have preferred something meaningful to have come out of it.

[livingonthebeach]

Just now, time4u2go said:

I would have preferred something meaningful to have come out of it.

 

Agreed.  But in the absence of that, it is a very small baby step in the right direction.  Let's hope the next call /meeting resolves something concrete. 

[Missusdubbya]

13 hours ago, bigrednole said:

This is the DUMBEST statement I ever heard. You do realize what is happening here is BECAUSE of someone on an airplane?

 

I love how people have no concept whatsoever of how a virus can be transmitted. And let me tell you, you can ABSOLUTELY be infected on airlines and far more so than on a cruise ship. The reason they don't have statistics on it is because they didn't want to. 

 

6 hours ago, legaljen1969 said:

Yes, and our country is multiple times larger.  What if we took a sampling from an area of our country with a similar size and population to either of these countries?   I would believe the numbers would be equal or probably less.    Considering you can pretty much fit 30 European nations into the borders of the US, I think it's not quite reasonable or fair to compare our outbreak rate to the rate of Italy or Germany. 

 

 

OMG the above comments 😆
 

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Agreed.  But in the absence of that, it is a very small baby step in the right direction.  Let's hope the next call /meeting resolves something concrete. 

 

Yes this, it would be excellent to hear some resolution from both parties.

 

[Sunshine3601]

I did not see any reference on the press release to when the cruise executives can expect to hear back from Pence.  

I know this is not a priority to the WH but I hope they review this week.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, PelicanBill said:

ugh. this was a courtesy meeting just to get on the agenda with the task force at a future date.

 

This could be significant. What does Backstop their venture really mean?

HHS Secretary Azar and CDC Director Redfield touched on their commitment to the collaborative effort that produced the Healthy Sail Panel’s 74 recommendations, and the Federal government’s support of the industry to safely and responsibly sail again, but cautioned that the cruise industry would have to backstop their venture to resume operations.

 

My take on this is that HHS and CDC still are insisting on the cruise lines providing private health care facilities, private general and medical transportation services, and private quarantine facilities, to "backstop" their onboard care and quarantine measures, as they have demanded all along, and as the Healthy Sail board also recommended.  This continues to be the bone of contention.

[Iamcruzin]

3 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

 

Have no issue aboard plane, airlines existence at stake so taking this very seriously.  Not so comfortable with terminals.  Read report recently about outfit testing terminal cleanliness (believe it was JFK) by making marks with invisible marker on seats, counters, moving walkways, rest rooms, etc.  Marks should have easily wiped away during cleaning.  Testers returned two weeks later wearing special goggles and many marks were still visible.

I agree terminals are filthy and will always be filthy especially in high traffic areas like JFK and Penn Station. I was never one to wipe down the walls and light switches on a cruise ship because the rooms and public areas always were clean. Even with covid I wouldn't be inclined to wipe down the surfaces in the room.  Wearing a mask and washing your hands is the best defence in public areas. The mask also protects you from yourself. Your hand can't come in contact with your mouth inadvertently and if your nose itches you scratch it over the mask. 

[Tree_skier]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

and as the Healthy Sail board also recommended. 

Wouldn't this imply that it is not so contentious anymore.  If their own Healthy Sail board is recommends it you would think that some sort of process is being developed. 

[HBE4]

I'm always amused when people compare cruising to flying and wonder why airlines do not have the same scrutiny as cruise ships. Other than moving people from Point A to Point B, the two  have very little in common.

 

On a plane,  you are with 150 people for about 4 hours or less vs 3,000 people for 4+ days.  On a plane, the air is refreshed every 3-5 minutes. How often is the air refreshed inside a ship? On a plane, everyone will be wearing a mask for the duration for a flight.  On a ship.....yet to be seen.

 

I'll be flying down to Aruba next month. Everyone on the plane will be wearing a mask and will be require to test negative for Covid 72 hours prior to departure. Does that mean I'm 100% safe. Of course not. But I'm probably safer on that plane then I am at my local supermarket or my neighbors Halloween party. Or a cruise ship. 'Nuff said. 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by HBE4

[Domino D]

9 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

I'm always amused when people compare cruising to flying and wonder why airlines do not have the same scrutiny as cruise ships. Other than moving people from Point A to Point B, the two  have very little in common.

 

On a plane,  you are with 150 people for about 4 hours or less vs 3,000 people for 4+ days.  On a plane, the air is refreshed every 3-5 minutes. How often is the air refreshed inside a ship? On a plane, everyone will be wearing a mask for the duration for a flight.  On a ship.....yet to be seen.

 

I'll be flying down to Aruba next month. Everyone on the plane will be wearing a mask and will be require to test negative for Covid 72 hours prior to departure. Does that mean I'm 100% safe. Of course not. But I'm probably safer on that plane then I am at my local supermarket or my neighbors Halloween party. Or a cruise ship. 'Nuff said. 

 

Agreed.   You also don't get off a plane in several different places and wander around in a larger group of people for 8 hours.  Much greater exposure factors with cruising unfortunately.  

 

@HBE4 is the 72 hour Covid test a condition imposed by Aruba or the airline (for international)?

[HBE4]

13 minutes ago, Domino D said:

 

@HBE4 is the 72 hour Covid test a condition imposed by Aruba or the airline (for international)?

 

It's an Aruba condition. I also need to buy covid insurance @ $7 pp/pd should I get sick once on the island.  The insurance is for medical care, isolation cost, etc. 

 

I did hear one airline - AA I think - may start doing rapid testing at the gate before boarding.to select islands such as Jamaica . Not sure if that's a done deal or still in the planning stages.  

[sgmn]

40 minutes ago, Domino D said:

 

 

@HBE4 is the 72 hour Covid test a condition imposed by Aruba or the airline (for international)?

The airline I work for has a mandatory  negative covid test requirement within 72 hours of departure..... And another one for return flight 

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

Wouldn't this imply that it is not so contentious anymore.  If their own Healthy Sail board is recommends it you would think that some sort of process is being developed. 

While some of this is likely in the works, the action plan required by the CDC will need to list the actually contracted entities providing the services, and the quantity and scope of services and facilities contracted for, and I think this is still the problem, with getting all this into place, i.e. finding someone to actually do it.