New vaccine

[Eglesbrech]

8 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

With me so far, great because I don't know what or who to believe.

And you know something about it. Image how the average person is struggling with all the conflicting information.

 

The argument about the timing of the second dose is also rumbling on again. 

[jeanlyon]

Yes, I am wondering when, if ever, my husband will get his second dose.  It seems that 6 weeks is the preferred maximum gap  between first and second.

 

Also sounds like the new variant is more dangerous than the first one.  It's depressing.

[yorkshirephil]

6 minutes ago, AnnieC said:

Not my view at the time, particularly as that was in the days when we all got mumps, measles, rubella and chicken pox - eeh, we 'ad it tough. Back then it was aspirin that was withheld for temperatures, not paracetamol - no idea if paracetamol was around then.

Paracetamol has been around since the end of the 19th Century, it was not widely used until the 50s (20 century). Paracetamol is more effective for milder pain in most people whereas Aspirin has a better effect against inflammation as well as pain. We also now know the benefits of aspirin as an anti clotting agent. Paracetamol is also now being used with other drugs because of the way it blocks signals to the brain. I take paracetamol for headache as aspirin can have a detrimental  affect on asthmatics and can be harsh on the gastrointestinal tract. Personal choice based on the best available data for me.

[Adawn47]

12 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

I assume it uses google maps and picks the nearest ones via road from the postcode you input, but I have no idea if it applies any other exclusions. 

It does actually state that the distances quoted are measured in a straight line, and as we all know, roads meander, therefore making the milage printed absolutely useless.

Avril

[kalos]

20 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

I take paracetamol for headache as aspirin can have a detrimental  affect on asthmatics and can be harsh on the gastrointestinal tract. Personal choice based on the best available data for me.

 

For every action there is a reaction as the saying goes . Because of my condition I take a Lansoprazole each morning before taking Aspirin and a load of other tablets . Should I have the need for pain killers then paracetamol is the only one I can take without medical advice. Like you say asthmatics and people on a host of other tablets have to be careful of what other tablets/medication are taken .

Edited January 23, 2021 by kalos

[davecttr]

12 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

It does actually state that the distances quoted are measured in a straight line, and as we all know, roads meander, therefore making the milage printed absolutely useless.

Avril

Indeed, remember some time ago when they announced they were opening walk in testing clinics no more than 30 minutes walking time, these were for most urban areas. I  switched to nerd mode, opened google dearth and checked for Medway. With the river, railway, straight roads going the wrong way, industrial estates etc etc we would have needed at least 12 centres for a 30 minute walk.. I don't think they ever happened.

[Dermotsgirl]

36 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Yes, I am wondering when, if ever, my husband will get his second dose.  It seems that 6 weeks is the preferred maximum gap  between first and second.

 

Also sounds like the new variant is more dangerous than the first one.  It's depressing.

The government has said everyone over 50 will be ‘offered’ a vaccine by the end of April.

 

There will have to be some intense vaccinating happening in April when all the over80’s vaccinated in January are due for their 2nd dose, alongside people in their 50s and 60s getting their 1st dose. 

[Angel57]

1 minute ago, Dermotsgirl said:

The government has said everyone over 50 will be ‘offered’ a vaccine by the end of April.

 

There will have to be some intense vaccinating happening in April when all the over80’s vaccinated in January are due for their 2nd dose, alongside people in their 50s and 60s getting their 1st dose. 

I agree Dermotsgirl. I would love to think this could be achieved , but I think supply of the vaccines may cause this not to happen. But my fingers and toes are crossed......

[yorkshirephil]

26 minutes ago, kalos said:

 

For every action there is a reaction as the saying goes . Because of my condition I take a Lansoprazole each morning before taking Aspirin and a load of other tablets . Should I have the need for pain killers then paracetamol is the only one I can take without medical advice. Like you say asthmatics and people on a host of other tablets have to be careful of what other tablets/medication are taken .

My MIL is the same with Paracetamol, she is also on Morphine and Paracetamol as standard dose but can take extra Paracetamol when needed. 

[Adawn47]

1 hour ago, yorkshirephil said:

I was looking through some of the news feeds this morning to see how they had reported on the Government announcement re; Kent strain of covid and the fact that they stated it could be more than 30% more fatal. Plus some reports that the vaccine could be 50% less effective against the South African strain or whether Sage were only 50% sure that it was actually more deadly against the Kent strain. With me so far, great because I don't know what or who to believe.
 

WHAT DO STUDIES SUBMITTED TO SAGE ON THE KENT STRAIN'S LETHALITY SHOW?

 

RESEARCH GROUP 

IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON (1)

IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON (2)

LONDON SCHOOL OF HYGIENE & TROPICAL MEDICINE (1)  

LONDON SCHOOL OF HYGIENE & TROPICAL MEDICINE (2)

UNIVERSITY OF EXETER 

 COVID-19 CLINICAL INFORMATION NETWORK  

PUBLIC HEALTH ENGLAND (1) 

PUBLIC HEALTH ENGLAND (2)

PUBLIC HEALTH ENGLAND (3)

PUBLIC HEALTH ENGLAND (4)

36% 

29% 

35% 

28%

91% 

–37%

 7%

30%

0%

65

 

Well If you're confused with your scientific background, I have no chance. Chatting with Frank last night after the briefing we came to a decision.

We will wait until we are contacted by our local NHS or doctor for our vaccinations. Whenever the second dose is booked for, we will have to accept that as no amount of complaining will change it. 

No matter who we listen to or whatever we read, we will never get the same answer to any question, and so we are still left none the wiser, just more angry and confused. The thing is, no-one actually knows, so what's the point of listening to them continually contradicting each other?

So the upshot is, keep doing what we have been for the last 10 months and wait patiently, otherwise I have more chance of dying from a stroke than covid.

On the bright side though, no cruises and not going out shopping = very healthy bank account.😁

Avril

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Adawn47
oops

[Eglesbrech]

22 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

The government has said everyone over 50 will be ‘offered’ a vaccine by the end of April.

 

There will have to be some intense vaccinating happening in April when all the over80’s vaccinated in January are due for their 2nd dose, alongside people in their 50s and 60s getting their 1st dose. 

Yes they did make that promise but most won’t be surprised if it proves difficult to keep. Unfortunately people are making plans based on what has been announced, naive perhaps but they are doings so.

 

I live in hope but it tempered with a healthy dose of realism.

[ann141]

2 hours ago, Beckett said:

Thanks very much Ann. I'm heading off to Princess right now! J.x

Please let us know if you book.Wozz has set up a roll call for the cruise

[kalos]

2 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Yes they did make that promise but most won’t be surprised if it proves difficult to keep. Unfortunately people are making plans based on what has been announced, naive perhaps but they are doings so.

 

I live in hope but it tempered with a healthy dose of realism.

That is what is needed ,scary that you read in the media people who tell you what they are going to do once the 2nd jab is in them . They seem to think that the Covid for them will just melt away and they live happily ever after. I remember only the other night the powers that be said on TV " We need to get the infection rate way down and the vaccination's further to beat this virus" These go together ,I know we all want normality but we have to be realistic about it ,there is a fair way to go yet .

[Eddie99]

Interesting that there are calls from some Docs here to reduce the 12 week interval between jabs, whilst in France some are promoting increasing their standard 3 week interval to 6 - for the same reason as here, to give a good deal of protection to twice as many people

 

The whole 2 jabs thing is interesting.  I wonder what the original rationale was for that?  It’s not ‘standard’, is it?  Many (most/nearly all) adult jabs are single, or are repeated after a number of years (eg tetanus, typhoid).  Some of the childhood ones require 2 jabs but surely not at a 3 week interval?  Anyone know/read anything?  Phil?

[jeanlyon]

Agree, but for instance, the dog's leptospirosis jab has first one, then second dose three weeks later, then booster every year.

[nicki-k]

43 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

Some of the childhood ones require 2 jabs but surely not at a 3 week interval?  Anyone know/read anything?  Phil?

Babies still have jabs at 8 weeks, 12 weeks then 16 weeks.

[molecrochip]

37 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

The whole 2 jabs thing is interesting.  I wonder what the original rationale was for that?  It’s not ‘standard’, is it?  Many (most/nearly all) adult jabs are single, or are repeated after a number of years (eg tetanus, typhoid).  Some of the childhood ones require 2 jabs but surely not at a 3 week interval?  Anyone know/read anything?  Phil?

There are many travel vaccines that you can get, for which, one jab will cover you for a 2 week holiday but a booster within 3 months will give you lifetime coverage.

 

HepA is given again after 6 months for lifetime cover.

HepB is given to babies as three jabs at 8, 12, and 16 weeks.

[Harry Peterson]

33 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

Interesting that there are calls from some Docs here to reduce the 12 week interval between jabs, whilst in France some are promoting increasing their standard 3 week interval to 6 - for the same reason as here, to give a good deal of protection to twice as many people

 

The whole 2 jabs thing is interesting.  I wonder what the original rationale was for that?  It’s not ‘standard’, is it?  Many (most/nearly all) adult jabs are single, or are repeated after a number of years (eg tetanus, typhoid).  Some of the childhood ones require 2 jabs but surely not at a 3 week interval?  Anyone know/read anything?  Phil?

Isn’t it essentially a balancing act between:
 

1  Sticking to the drug company recommendations and providing maximum protection to those fortunate enough to be inoculated fairly early and 

 

2  Accepting the likelihood of lower protection for that group, but providing that same lower level of protection for a much larger group, thus reducing the impact on the NHS?

As someone likely to be ‘offered’ vaccination by mid-February I’d obviously prefer to have both jabs within the correct timescale, particularly as being immunosuppressed there’s considerable doubt as to whether the vaccine will work at all, but it still makes perfect sense to me to take the second route for the greater public good.

 

[Eddie99]

11 minutes ago, nicki-k said:

Babies still have jabs at 8 weeks, 12 weeks then 16 weeks.

Thank you (and Moley) for the baby jab info ... it was a long time ago, so I needed the reminder

 

I still wonder about why the developers went for the 3 week interval?  Obviously not ‘for fun’ but, knowing that virtually the whole world needs vaccinating, you think they might have tried to make it simpler, with either one jab only, or two jabs with a long space between or annual jabs etc

 

Let’s all keep our fingers crossed that 12 weeks is OK, for now

[yorkshirephil]

24 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

Interesting that there are calls from some Docs here to reduce the 12 week interval between jabs, whilst in France some are promoting increasing their standard 3 week interval to 6 - for the same reason as here, to give a good deal of protection to twice as many people

 

The whole 2 jabs thing is interesting.  I wonder what the original rationale was for that?  It’s not ‘standard’, is it?  Many (most/nearly all) adult jabs are single, or are repeated after a number of years (eg tetanus, typhoid).  Some of the childhood ones require 2 jabs but surely not at a 3 week interval?  Anyone know/read anything?  Phil?

I think considering the enormity of the task to produce/manufacture and approve a vaccine in less than 10 months is phenomenal, I for one didn't think it possible because it was unheard of, just getting the MHRA FDA to look at your data when you were producing a generic drug that had been on the market for 20 years was hard enough. Making the vaccine was no big deal with the building blocks manufacturing plants and knowledge base already in place, money was basically no object and governments all over the world pumped billions into it. What makes it even better is the fact that a newish science of mRNA vaccine from technology that had never been approved anywhere in the world happened so quick. In effect this vaccine is still in its trial period and we will learn a lot in a much shorter time than what is typical, mRNA is very fragile, hence keeping it at -70oC to stop it breaking down, some of the other ingredients are there to protect the RNA chain and stop the immune system from destroying it as soon as it enters the body before it can have any effect. I have looked at the trial data that is in the public domain, from what I see there is no evidence of the doses being more than 42 days apart (this could be why the suggestion of 6 weeks apart may stem from) The initial 3 weeks could have been an arbitrary period, I am not saying it is but when scientists are under such pressure to get a drug to market then someone has to make a call with not much experience or data to support it in this case. The first dose is basically priming your immune system the second dose to boost the immune response to last longer, a good analogy would be to compare a person learning something new, one person may see something and never forget it whereas another one will need a reminder and sadly some won't remember. As I always said the government backed by Sage made a call on 12 weeks in an effort to save lives and get as many people vaccinated as possible, my concern was about detracting from the trial data which is a risk, history will judge. It is easy to have a moan as the whole subject is very emotive and the constant sniping and disagreement by experts and politicians alike doesn't help. Hopefully in a couple of months we will have more clarity, plus we need to consider the future, these vaccines will be developed and improved so hopefully next November when cases start climbing again we will have an improved vaccine and the infrastructure in place to thwart it.

[Eddie99]

Thanks Phil

Interesting, and clearly explained, as usual

[Snow Hill]

8 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Isn’t it essentially a balancing act between:
 

1  Sticking to the drug company recommendations and providing maximum protection to those fortunate enough to be inoculated fairly early and 

 

2  Accepting the likelihood of lower protection for that group, but providing that same lower level of protection for a much larger group, thus reducing the impact on the NHS?

As someone likely to be ‘offered’ vaccination by mid-February I’d obviously prefer to have both jabs within the correct timescale, particularly as being immunosuppressed there’s considerable doubt as to whether the vaccine will work at all, but it still makes perfect sense to me to take the second route for the greater public good.

 

If it’s such a good idea why is the U.K. the only country in the world with a 12 week gap between doses for the Pfizer vaccine. WHO have said it should be given no later than 6 weeks after the first as have the BMA. For those who received their vaccination on the first day, today is day 42 by which time they should have had their second dose. A read a piece this morning from an virologist asking whether NHS England were planning any blood testing of those who have been vaccinated to see if the Antibodies in the blood are there from the vaccination and checking regularly to see if there is any changed, to date he has had no answer. 

[Eddie99]

Please ignore my mis-post and read the link in the following post

Apologies

(I can’t delete this - grrrr)

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Eddie99

[Eddie99]

Interesting Twitter thread on vaccination intervals

 

https://twitter.com/drdompimenta/status/1352985686509547520?s=21

 

[yorkshirephil]

1 minute ago, Eddie99 said:

There’s a very interesting, though technical, Twitter thread at the end of this link

 

This is the other side of the coin, somewhat subjective because they are not comparing like for like. I can make a case for 3 weeks as well as 12 weeks, one advantage the scientists do have is that almost 500,000 people have had 2 doses so they have a large study group to compare with several million who will have an extended period between doses. For anyone that is interested or wants to boost their understanding of virology and with nothing better to do take a look at this site, A Brief History of Polio Vaccines | Science (sciencemag.org)