New vaccine

[molecrochip]

27 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

Thank you (and Moley) for the baby jab info ... it was a long time ago, so I needed the reminder

 

I still wonder about why the developers went for the 3 week interval?  Obviously not ‘for fun’ but, knowing that virtually the whole world needs vaccinating, you think they might have tried to make it simpler, with either one jab only, or two jabs with a long space between or annual jabs etc

 

Let’s all keep our fingers crossed that 12 weeks is OK, for now

I don't think that they chose to have a two jab vaccine. I think its more about how the body reacts and processes the vaccination. Essentially, if you can get to 85% effectiveness, say for 12 months with one jab, it doesn't necessarily mean that increasing the dosage in the initial jab will give you 95% effectiveness for life. It may be that the extra dosage makes people too ill to build immunity.

 

Its a big balancing act. Its why using rats in a trial are good as you find that point where not enough dosage doesn't build immunity but too much kills the rat. You then move on to find out whether a second dose makes a difference. In this case, yes it does. You then move on to find out when is the optimum time to give the second dose.

[Harry Peterson]

23 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

If it’s such a good idea why is the U.K. the only country in the world with a 12 week gap between doses for the Pfizer vaccine. WHO have said it should be given no later than 6 weeks after the first as have the BMA. For those who received their vaccination on the first day, today is day 42 by which time they should have had their second dose. A read a piece this morning from an virologist asking whether NHS England were planning any blood testing of those who have been vaccinated to see if the Antibodies in the blood are there from the vaccination and checking regularly to see if there is any changed, to date he has had no answer. 

I don’t disagree with any of that. It’s all entirely logical.

 

But we’ve been forced into a corner by having the highest death rate per million in the world, including Trump’s America, a health service weakened by years of cuts in real terms, and staffing cuts, and its imminent collapse if dramatic action isn’t taken, even against all the informed advice.

 

If you’re forced into a corner, which unfortunately we have been, you’re left with very limited options.

[arlowood]

33 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

If it’s such a good idea why is the U.K. the only country in the world with a 12 week gap between doses for the Pfizer vaccine. WHO have said it should be given no later than 6 weeks after the first as have the BMA. For those who received their vaccination on the first day, today is day 42 by which time they should have had their second dose. A read a piece this morning from an virologist asking whether NHS England were planning any blood testing of those who have been vaccinated to see if the Antibodies in the blood are there from the vaccination and checking regularly to see if there is any changed, to date he has had no answer. 

The monitoring of antibody levels in the millions already vaccinated would be a huge undertaking but I wonder if there is a sub-set anywhere that is being monitored to check if there are any distinctions between those who have already had 2 doses and those on the extended 12 week schedule.

 

An additional data point that will be crucial is to interrogate all who return a positive Covid test on whether they have been vaccinated and where they are on the time spectrum (ie 2 doses or 1 dose and waiting for the second). I'm sure it will be inbuilt somewhere but I don't know for certain

[terrierjohn]

36 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

If it’s such a good idea why is the U.K. the only country in the world with a 12 week gap between doses for the Pfizer vaccine. WHO have said it should be given no later than 6 weeks after the first as have the BMA. For those who received their vaccination on the first day, today is day 42 by which time they should have had their second dose. A read a piece this morning from an virologist asking whether NHS England were planning any blood testing of those who have been vaccinated to see if the Antibodies in the blood are there from the vaccination and checking regularly to see if there is any changed, to date he has had no answer. 

I have understood from Vallance and Whitty that just about every thing that can be measured regarding the virus and the vaccine, is being measured, and Vallance has repeatedly said that they are monitoring the 12 week gap and will report the results as soon as they have them.

[jeanlyon]

Actually we have the 6th worst death rate per million, behind Czech Republic, Slovenia, and Belgium with a couple of others like Gib.  If people go on having parties for 200 people in Knightsbridge, weddings with 400 people somewhere else and all these Londoners coming to the West country what can we expect.

Edited January 23, 2021 by jeanlyon

[AnnieC]

8 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Actually we have the 6th worst death rate per million, behind Czech Republic, Slovenia, and Belgium with a couple of others like Gib.  If people go on having parties for 200 people in Knightsbridge, weddings with 400 people somewhere else and all these Londoners coming to the West country what can we expect.

I noticed that Gibraltar has recently appeared in the top half a dozen on the chart of doom - seemed to appear from nowhere, unless I've missed it in the past. Wonder why?

[Harry Peterson]

12 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Actually we have the 6th worst death rate per million, behind Czech Republic, Slovenia, and Belgium with a couple of others like Gib.  If people go on having parties for 200 people in Knightsbridge, weddings with 400 people somewhere else and all these Londoners coming to the West country what can we expect.

That’s the cumulative figure. Currently we have the worst death rate, which is why the NHS is on the point of collapse in several areas.

 

What’s seldom mentioned is that because of the acute shortage of ICU beds, older patients are simply triaged out and never get near one.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Harry Peterson

[yorkshirephil]

16 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I have understood from Vallance and Whitty that just about every thing that can be measured regarding the virus and the vaccine, is being measured, and Vallance has repeatedly said that they are monitoring the 12 week gap and will report the results as soon as they have them.

This is the logical approach, this vaccine is a massive trial and the same rationale will be used to monitor it as if it were a standard trial for any new drug. Albeit I am not a fan of detracting from set protocols sometimes progress is derived from accidents and detractions.

[majortom10]

Dont know if it is just me being cynical or others think the same but I dont take much notice of the death rate per million widely portrayed by the press and news corporations. I am not totally convinced that all countries are using the same rules to measure deaths per million so it makes it nonsensical.

Edited January 23, 2021 by majortom10

[AnnieC]

2 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Dont know if it is just me being cynical or others think the same but I dont take much notice of the death rate per million widely portrayed by the press and news corporations. I am not totally convinced that all countries are using the same rules to measure deaths per million so it makes it non sensical.

Regardless of the measure you use, I don't think anyone could argue that we are doing well and the deaths per million is the nearest you're likely to get to the true picture, unless anyone has a better suggestion? 

 

 

[AnnieC]

35 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

That’s the cumulative figure. Currently we have the worst death rate, which is why the NHS is on the point of collapse in several areas.

 

What’s seldom mentioned is that because of the acute shortage of ICU beds, older patients are simply triaged out and never get near one.

I'm no apologist for this government or their policies on covid, but some of our problems seem to stem from the prevalence of the new variant. Denmark, for one, expects it to take over there and for their death rates to soar. Similar fears in the US.

[Harry Peterson]

8 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Dont know if it is just me being cynical or others think the same but I dont take much notice of the death rate per million widely portrayed by the press and news corporations. I am not totally convinced that all countries are using the same rules to measure deaths per million so it makes it nonsensical.

However you view the statistics, it’s very obvious indeed that we have a serious and immediate crisis within the NHS, and that’s why the vaccination programme is so vitally important.

[majortom10]

Just now, Harry Peterson said:

However you view the statistics, it’s very obvious indeed that we have a serious and immediate crisis within the NHS, and that’s why the vaccination programme is so vitally important.

Dont think anyone is denying that.

[arlowood]

10 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Dont know if it is just me being cynical or others think the same but I dont take much notice of the death rate per million widely portrayed by the press and news corporations. I am not totally convinced that all countries are using the same rules to measure deaths per million so it makes it nonsensical.

I agree entirely. We have no way of knowing with any certainty how other countries record their death figures. There is also the accusation that some deaths in the UK have been attributed to COVID when other factors have been the primary cause.

 

I don't disagree that we have a parlous situation here in the UK but scoring points or otherwise by drawing up league tables is not helpful

[Dinglebert]

1 minute ago, majortom10 said:

Dont think anyone is denying that.

You've not met my next door neighbour.

[kalos]

What we need to do is keep in mind those shocking figures and look at what we can do and that is all following the rules. That means us all pulling together by not going out to see parked up cruise ships or trips to flooded area's just to nosey when we do not live there , which has been happening . Follow all the rules not just what suits. It is no good pointing out a death rate chart unless you do something about it . I note not many mention the " Most vaccination charts " is that because we are also top of that as well ?  Lets all support our NHS and get out of this mess , they are doing a great job with what they have .Lets be thankful we have them supporting us .

[zap99]

10 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Dont think anyone is denying that.

478,000 today. Remember phrases like over promising and unrealistic. 🤣🤣

[ann141]

9 minutes ago, kalos said:

What we need to do is keep in mind those shocking figures and look at what we can do and that is all following the rules. That means us all pulling together by not going out to see parked up cruise ships or trips to flooded area's just to nosey when we do not live there , which has been happening . Follow all the rules not just what suits. It is no good pointing out a death rate chart unless you do something about it . I note not many mention the " Most vaccination charts " is that because we are also top of that as well ?  Lets all support our NHS and get out of this mess , they are doing a great job with what they have .Lets be thankful we have them supporting us .

Well said.Thank you Kalos

[zap99]

10 minutes ago, kalos said:

What we need to do is keep in mind those shocking figures and look at what we can do and that is all following the rules. That means us all pulling together by not going out to see parked up cruise ships or trips to flooded area's just to nosey when we do not live there , which has been happening . Follow all the rules not just what suits. It is no good pointing out a death rate chart unless you do something about it . I note not many mention the " Most vaccination charts " is that because we are also top of that as well ?  Lets all support our NHS and get out of this mess , they are doing a great job with what they have .Lets be thankful we have them supporting us .

I think the vaccination figures are just stunning. Thanks to all those folks working their socks off. They are world beating.🤣

[yorkshirephil]

3 minutes ago, zap99 said:

478,000 today. Remember phrases like over promising and unrealistic. 🤣🤣

It is one hell of an achievement, approx 6.3 million doses given so far.

[Angel57]

12 minutes ago, kalos said:

What we need to do is keep in mind those shocking figures and look at what we can do and that is all following the rules. That means us all pulling together by not going out to see parked up cruise ships or trips to flooded area's just to nosey when we do not live there , which has been happening . Follow all the rules not just what suits. It is no good pointing out a death rate chart unless you do something about it . I note not many mention the " Most vaccination charts " is that because we are also top of that as well ?  Lets all support our NHS and get out of this mess , they are doing a great job with what they have .Lets be thankful we have them supporting us .

Spot on Kalos........x

[Eddie99]

1 minute ago, yorkshirephil said:

It is one hell of an achievement, approx 6.3 million doses given so far.

Still going, all guns blazing, at our GP hub.  They’ve even got yellow road signs out now with words to the effect “Caution.  Pedestrians crossing road for Coronavirus vaccinations”.  Shouldn’t really be necessary, as they’ve got volunteers manning the pelican crossing but I suppose it’s a belts and braces in case any of the recipients get over-excited and forget their kerb drill 🙂

[Dermotsgirl]

19 minutes ago, zap99 said:

478,000 today. Remember phrases like over promising and unrealistic. 🤣🤣

It's the NHS doing the delivering, that why the impossible is being achieved. 

[Josy1953]

My niece has just text me that she has had her first Pfizer vaccine today.  This is good news for our family because she is having chemotherapy ( had 5th out of 6 chemo sessions on Monday ) so her immune system is compromised at the moment.

[Angel57]

2 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

My niece has just text me that she has had her first Pfizer vaccine today.  This is good news for our family because she is having chemotherapy ( had 5th out of 6 chemo sessions on Monday ) so her immune system is compromised at the moment.

Really pleased to hear that news Josy.