Exclusive lounges = elitism?

Here's another. You can all find this to see that it's genuine on the Celebrity UK website. This is from the Eclipse sailing on September 11th this year.

Who thinks that upgrading from aqua class to suite class is worth £6.25 per person per night? Again, you can verify this yourselves from the above information in this post. That's less than the cost of upgrading from classic to premium and buys you an additional 100 sq ft of real estate.

Well maybe the OP would!

 

But I feel it’s extremely rare that those who are in Suites ever discuss their work life. Conversations usually revolve around travel, family, etc.

 

We travel with a group of friends. Some retired, some still working, but all of us have a huge love of cruising.

 

Over the years, we had booked balcony cabins, family view cabins, and probably the past 10 years Sky Suites. Not for the perks, but for additional space. Closet space, drawer space, bathroom space.

 

My point being, whatever your situation in life, do what makes you happy. Be with people that make you smile. Be grateful that life allows you be on the sea, in beautiful surroundings.

 

Life is too short to feel jealousy, or be envious.

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IMO there’s been a bit much OP bashing and baiting on this thread. I hope everyone is actually reading his original posts, which were mild and thought provoking. He hasn’t actually stated or implied many of the things attributed to him.

I’m happy to agree with you that, in fact, few people in any accommodation discuss their work life or net worth. I find this especially true of people from the UK and Europe, bless them, who don’t immediately ask me, “what I do”. On holiday, work is the last thing I want to ponder or discuss. I’d rather discuss travel, family, history, literature, music or any number of other topics.

Like you, we’ve booked a variety of cabins, but only one Sky Suite to date. I’m actually afraid that with the advent of new Edge Retreat concept, we’ll be priced out of the suites. This would be ironic, since we’ve not much interest in the Retreat pool (two fair people who each have a first cousin with melanoma have no business lying in the sun for long). I guess we’d better book a suite on one of the other ships before they’re Edge-i-cized lol. Regardless, we’ll be happy with our cabin or suite, and I wish everyone else happiness in theirs.

This is a great answer as to "why sail Celebrity if you're already paying so much?" Those luxury lines can leave a lot to be desired when it comes to size. Service and dining can be top-notch, but that doesn't always make up for being in a small room on a ship in which there is very little to do.

Exactly why I will probably never sail on a luxury ship. I like to be entertained on vacation. If all I want to do is sit and read a book all day, I can stay at home and do that.

I read these posts and I have to laugh.

We booked another b2b recently for Jan. 2020

Believe it or not, we still book insides. No qualms whatsoever! We don't need Michael's and don't know whether or not we would even like Luminae or Blue (or whatever it is called)

The two cruises in Cad funds adds up to $7298.00 To that we have to add air which is over $700pp these days and hotel in Fort Lauderdale (W) plus extras.

For us this is more than enough to spend just to escape 3 1/2 cold icy snowy weeks!

I checked the sky suite just because of this thread. The cruise portion of the trip would be $19, 618- Plus,plus, plus

I can't see any justification to spend that. That's me. To each his own!

Whatever you chose, enjoy!

IMO there’s been a bit much OP bashing and baiting on this thread. I hope everyone is actually reading his original posts, which were mild and thought provoking. He hasn’t actually stated or implied many of the things attributed to him.

...

I did read his original post, and his remarks were quite clear. He was ok with others paying more for a larger stateroom, but peeved that they were also gaining access to areas of the ship which he was not.

And thus ensued the torrent of “us versus them” comments.

Ever since the Edge reveal, threads like this one keep popping up. Each one presented slightly differently, but all evolving the same way, with lots of vitriolic and snide comments. It's sad.

“Inequality” (as it’s perceived) in one form or another will always exist. Life is too short, I endeavor to be happy with whichever end of the spectrum I end up on.

I found this link on another thread. Edge will have more than twice the number of suites as Solstice class (except Reflection) ships do, so if - as you say - they’ve designed the ship well, non-suite passengers may experience no loss of usable public space.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TfbbTSqdltFOY32GX54Qdb-Kiyomi-xd/view

Silkroad, thanks for this link. I spent a few minutes analysing it this morning and there is a wealth of information contained in it. From a competitive information point of view , I am surprised it is in the public domain, it definitely shows the future direction of Celebrity.

My first conclusion is that suite life is going to be the focus moving forward. There is a significant increase in the number of suites available onboard, particularly in the Sky Suite category with a new "S3" appearing. However, what is significant is that there are several new categories of suites which have a "-" indicating none at the present time: Celebrity Family Suite with veranda, and Sky Family Suite with Veranda, and if you check out the veranda category the Family OV with Veranda has been dropped. Targeting families in an deluxe category stateroom. That will certainly annoy a significant portion of existing client who feel children have no place on an -X- cruise.

Next the focus on Aqua Class cabins is dropping by about 30% from Reflection. Possibly over expansion of that class which has created too much supply resulting in too many "sales" to move inventory, or possible re-allocation of that space to higher yielding rooms - suites.

Concierge class remains stable; high yielding rooms based on location. Why get rid of a revenue generator.

Small decrease in Balcony rooms by 8%, again re-allocation of space to higher revenue yielding rooms.

Quite surprised that Ocean View rooms are doubling; these must be a consistent revenue generation item that they feel will be a desirable option given the drop in balcony staterooms.

Interior staterooms dropping by about 8% as well, most likely as this space is re-allocated to production/work area, as it is probably the lowest revenue space on the ship.

I think that as the Reflection was a "test" for the S class ships as the number of premiums cabins jumped by 40% from 5% of total cabins to 7%, the Edge will be the "test" to see how well the changes are received and modifications will be made to the remaining "E" class builds in the future.

If you look at the floorplan for Edge there are a few Interior cabins which are linked by connecting doors to Sky Suites, if booked by one family will that make the entire "suite" eligible for all suite benefits?

The future is Suites. When I was working we had a general guideline that 20% of our clients generated 80% of the profit, essentially meaning that 80% of the clients covered our costs. You can be assured the plan is to build high fences around the top 5-10% of the clients as they generate the high revenue desired. Those "fences" appear to be dedicated, segregated space within the ship provided for suite clients.

Also, as the remaining fleet undergoes the Celebrity Revolution we have already been told that more space is being allocated to the "suite life". The creation of the new Retreat Sundeck and Retreat Lounge has to come from somewhere and the top deck forward looks like a nice place to start...........

Whether it is Elitism or not, it is certainly the focus -X- has been placing in all their marketing for the past few years; positioning themselves as a luxury line rather than a mass market or premium.

It certainly explains why there is a significant price premium evident on future cruises.

Fact #1

There is a lot of misunderstanding of what luxury at sea is. An inside cabin on a ship A may provide for higher class cruising experience than a suite on ship B.

Fact#2

The Breakaway is a nice ship. I'll find a higher quality product overall that you would on Celebrity Edge for instance. There is no need to book the Haven on this ship as does not add much to the experience. The most attractive venues are outside the Haven. What makes NCL credit is that the Haven does not limit the cruising experience of other passengers. It's a nice touch of extra comfort but not "elite" to any extent.

Relax and enjoy!

Can you give some examples were an Inside on ship A might be a better experience than a Suite on ship B?

The Edge is still being built thus at this point any comparisons are premature.

We would not book RCI except for the Suites Lounge and Coastal Kitchens. Michael's and Luminae are the reason we're contemplating a Celebrity cruise.

Same here. Anthem was my first experience with Coastal Kitchen. I don't want to try the other RCL mega ships but did want a ship with the suite restaurant and dedicated suite lounge. This is why I booked Celebrity for this fall. I don't know about the perceived elitism. I've never talked about staying in a suite with any other passengers, even when CK wasn't on the ship I was on. I stay in suites because in real life I live on a farm with animals. I feed and care for them and shovel poo. I wear clothes on the farm not fit for elsewhere. I want to be pampered that one week but surely don't think I am better than anyone else.

I did read his original post, and his remarks were quite clear. He was ok with others paying more for a larger stateroom, but peeved that they were also gaining access to areas of the ship which he was not.

And thus ensued the torrent of “us versus them” comments.

Ever since the Edge reveal, threads like this one keep popping up. Each one presented slightly differently, but all evolving the same way, with lots of vitriolic and snide comments. It's sad.

“Inequality” (as it’s perceived) in one form or another will always exist. Life is too short, I endeavor to be happy with whichever end of the spectrum I end up on.

I did say original posts, because my point was that he himself was never vituperative or snide, so I think it’s a shame that some people reacted as if he had been. He, along with several others on the thread, seems to be considering other perspectives and opinions. Isn’t that how a lively public debate should be? Yes, I do see that the same topics pop up every two weeks, but each time they pop up, at least some new people are involved (though I suspect we’re seeing a few trolls as well). (I myself am certainly tired of the dress code threads that invariably devolve into an ugly fray.) Whenever new people join a discussion, new information may emerge, and I may learn something. Like you, I’m happy in whichever end of the spectrum I end up on (if we’re talking about cabins, that is).

Here is one of the OP’s posts:

Posted February 19th, 2018, 04:59 PM

Last edited by Jchivers; February 19th, 2018 at 05:07 PM Reason: P.S.

I'm gratified to have launched such a lively debate! (Even if I'm not drawing a lot of supporters to my side. :) ) And I do see both sides on this question.

Trust me, I don't begrudge anyone their right to spend their money on whatever level of service they feel is worthwhile. I certainly do -- for me, a verandah is an absolute necessity.

The issue for me is exclusivity. For the areas in question, you're not just paying for the larger room; you're paying to get into a space that others can't. To get the secret password. That's the part that "bugs me".

I also suspect that if I ever decide to splurge on a suite and get that secret password, that I would enthusiastically join in and never look back. :)

Edited to add: ScubesDad gets it...thank you. Although, fortunately, I don't think I've encountered anyone who flaunts their exclusive access -- it's just the existence of the venue. And I shall endeavor to not sweat the small stuff.

Silkroad, thanks for this link. I spent a few minutes analysing it this morning and there is a wealth of information contained in it. From a competitive information point of view , I am surprised it is in the public domain, it definitely shows the future direction of Celebrity.

 

My first conclusion is that suite life is going to be the focus moving forward. There is a significant increase in the number of suites available onboard, particularly in the Sky Suite category with a new "S3" appearing. However, what is significant is that there are several new categories of suites which have a "-" indicating none at the present time: Celebrity Family Suite with veranda, and Sky Family Suite with Veranda, and if you check out the veranda category the Family OV with Veranda has been dropped. Targeting families in an deluxe category stateroom. That will certainly annoy a significant portion of existing client who feel children have no place on an -X- cruise.

 

If you look at the floorplan for Edge there are a few Interior cabins which are linked by connecting doors to Sky Suites, if booked by one family will that make the entire "suite" eligible for all suite benefits?

 

The future is Suites. When I was working we had a general guideline that 20% of our clients generated 80% of the profit, essentially meaning that 80% of the clients covered our costs. You can be assured the plan is to build high fences around the top 5-10% of the clients as they generate the high revenue desired. Those "fences" appear to be dedicated, segregated space within the ship provided for suite clients.

 

Also, as the remaining fleet undergoes the Celebrity Revolution we have already been told that more space is being allocated to the "suite life". The creation of the new Retreat Sundeck and Retreat Lounge has to come from somewhere and the top deck forward looks like a nice place to start...........

 

Whether it is Elitism or not, it is certainly the focus -X- has been placing in all their marketing for the past few years; positioning themselves as a luxury line rather than a mass market or premium.

https://www.celebritycruisespresscenter.com/fact_sheets/1489410875_Celebrity-Edge-fact-sheet-March-2017.pdf

The document in the other link you are “surprised” is in the public domain is a re-release of information from X at the first Edge “Reveal” in March 2017. The original in the link I posted above shows clearly that “Celebrity family suites” and “Sky family suites” are actually created by a combination of two separate staterooms. It was noted by X at the Reveal that these two special categories of suites will not be available on all sailings.

Not sure why the category “Family Oceanview with verandah” is on the new document, as it was not listed on the original press release. Perhaps they will be available on a future E-class ship?

X is indeed focusing on the “suite life” going forward. They promised to provide a new, different and innovative class of ship, which it appears, they are. Many may prefer the M or S class ships, but there are others who will enjoy the new E class I'm sure.

Silkroad, thanks for this link. I spent a few minutes analysing it this morning and there is a wealth of information contained in it. From a competitive information point of view , I am surprised it is in the public domain, it definitely shows the future direction of Celebrity.

You’re quite welcome. I too was surprised to see it. I suspect someone who had access to it posted it in a non-secure web area, making it readily available on a simple web search.

Yes, I’d already noticed the reduction in Aqua cabins, but was startled to see just how many suites there were. Thanks, I hadn’t yet scrutinized it carefully, so hadn’t noticed either the increase in Ocean View cabins or the inside cabins connected to suites. The latter sound great for parents with young children. They could have a bit of privacy without worrying about wee ones getting onto a balcony without supervision. I had noticed the handful of single cabins, which I think is great! I’ve always felt empathy for people paying a hefty single supplement.

I’m not certain they’ll be successful rebranding themselves as a luxury line, but all they really must do is put some distance between themselves and, say, Princess and HAL. It’s going to be interesting to see where this goes:)

It's probably not specific to Celebrity, but I'll use them as the example: if you pay for a certain category of room you get access to restaurants or lounges that are off limits to the other passengers.

 

Does this rub anyone else the wrong way?

 

I have no problem with paying more for a room or a meal and getting a better room/meal....but getting the privilege of not having to share a space with your fellow passengers bugs me a little. Am I the only one?

No bother here...many options for all passengers!

Fact #1

There is a lot of misunderstanding of what luxury at sea is. An inside cabin on a ship A may provide for higher class cruising experience than a suite on ship B.

Fact#2

The Breakaway is a nice ship. I'll find a higher quality product overall that you would on Celebrity Edge for instance. There is no need to book the Haven on this ship as does not add much to the experience. The most attractive venues are outside the Haven. What makes NCL credit is that the Haven does not limit the cruising experience of other passengers. It's a nice touch of extra comfort but not "elite" to any extent.

Relax and enjoy!

You are kidding. We were in the Haven on that ship, and it was the only decent thing there. The smoke among other things was a health hazard.

Same here. Anthem was my first experience with Coastal Kitchen. I don't want to try the other RCL mega ships but did want a ship with the suite restaurant and dedicated suite lounge. This is why I booked Celebrity for this fall. I don't know about the perceived elitism. I've never talked about staying in a suite with any other passengers, even when CK wasn't on the ship I was on. I stay in suites because in real life I live on a farm with animals. I feed and care for them and shovel poo. I wear clothes on the farm not fit for elsewhere. I want to be pampered that one week but surely don't think I am better than anyone else.

This "elitism" discussion takes many forms. I've seen accusations made that wearing your cruise card on a lanyard is a form of elitism since the color of the cruise card may indicate loyalty status or room category. Evidently, some are really sensitive and react strongly to perceived "elitism".

I've never shoveled poo on a farm but I have unloaded cases of chickens packed in ice from a delivery truck. Nothing quite like a river of ice cold bloody water running down your armpit to make you feel like a member of the 'elite'.

I grew up, the son of a professional ditch digger, on a dirt road five miles from the nearest town. That town still doesn't have a traffic light and most streets are still dirt. I've come a long way and I love the 'suite life'.

So, do you think we may hear suite guests complaining that it is too crowded for Luminae and other suite venues? It certainly will be interesting to get information about all areas of the ship starting the end of November. I guess we will all have to wait the nine months to start putting the puzzle together.

I have a year from April 28 to actually see for myself with Silkroad and Wannahavefun. Until then, I will read what others share, along with posting my own thoughts in a constructive way, whether positive or negative.

I remain excited, open minded and hopeful that Celebrity will wow my expectations! After all this time, with very sketchy forthcoming information, Celebrity has certainly raised the bar from their end...

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You’re quite welcome. I too was surprised to see it. I suspect someone who had access to it posted it in a non-secure web area, making it readily available on a simple web search.

https://www.google.nl/search?q=%22*Edge+%3D+Ocean+View+cat+06%2F07+larger+vs+cat+08.+Inside+cat+09%2F10%2F11+are+larger+vs+cat+12%22&oq=%22*Edge+%3D+Ocean+View+cat+06%2F07+larger+vs+cat+08.+Inside+cat+09%2F10%2F11+are+larger+vs+cat+12%22&aqs=chrome..69i57.3644j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The source seems to be this site, http://creative.rccl.com/ which looks as if it is meant for TAs. I'm not sure what secrets are in the document that cannot be derived from publicly available deck plans?

It's probably not specific to Celebrity, but I'll use them as the example: if you pay for a certain category of room you get access to restaurants or lounges that are off limits to the other passengers.

 

Does this rub anyone else the wrong way?

 

I have no problem with paying more for a room or a meal and getting a better room/meal....but getting the privilege of not having to share a space with your fellow passengers bugs me a little. Am I the only one?

Sorry "Bernie" it's the old you pay more you get more philosophy. You'll find it on virtually all the lines. Cunard has some "exclusion". More so than say Celebrity. If you're going to complain about "class separation" (which you are)I'd suggest you stay off NCL, with it's "Haven" or MSC with it's "Yacht Club". Those 2 lines make Cunard pale in comparison when it comes to class separation. They have large areas of the ship exclusive to themselves. Those in the Haven really don't have leave their own little world. It's pretty much all to themselves there & yet the rest of the ship(the large Breakaway & Epic class)is surprisingly low end.

I have a year from April 28 to actually see for myself with Silkroad and Wannahavefun.

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Lol do you think they’re ready for us?;p

Captain Kafetzis was on Silhouette in 2013, CD Maarten Breuls & Hotel Director Niyazi Korkmaz were on Reflection last year, and I imagine we’ll see some other familiar faces:).

Inside cabin on TUI MS3:

 

Are you sure that's not a crew cabin? Very basic decor :eek:

I expected to be in the minority (my wife thinks I'm crazy :) ) I was just curious by how much. Like I said, I have no problem with getting a better room or better service or a better airline seat by paying more. The part that bothers me is the "nyah nyah...you can't come in" feature.

I’ve never noticed the attitude you describe but then again we always book suites on Celebrity and again, if you choose to pay the price, enjoy the perks!

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It's $3,500 for a couple for a 14-day Caribbean cruise (included: port charges, gratuities, select beverages, thermal spa). A bit too much for the crew... :)

A bit too much for the price either. I guess I have been corrupted over the years, as my first Veranda put paid to Insides and my first Suite made that the new starting point. The cabin you pictured would be unacceptable at any price.

Never jealous of what other people pay for and get. Object should be to strive to achieve that yourself.

Lovely response!

Cheers!

This is a "nominal" price.

A place to take shower and sleep.

This 5*- ship and the cruise on this ship keep you out and about.

Have to agree with HJ. I try and be humble, but that looks hideous. I'd expect some of the crew accomodation to better that. Significantly.

Fact #1

 

There is a lot of misunderstanding of what luxury at sea is. An inside cabin on a ship A may provide for higher class cruising experience than a suite on ship B.

 

Fact#2

 

The Breakaway is a nice ship. I'll find a higher quality product overall that you would on Celebrity Edge for instance. There is no need to book the Haven on this ship as does not add much to the experience. The most attractive venues are outside the Haven. What makes NCL credit is that the Haven does not limit the cruising experience of other passengers. It's a nice touch of extra comfort but not "elite" to any extent.

 

Relax and enjoy!

The only actual “fact” I see is that luxury is based on one’s perspective. Haven on Breakaway may not be luxury level to you but it is to me, hence I view it was treating ourselves. And frankly that’s all that matters.

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The only actual “fact” I see is that luxury is based on one’s perspective. Haven on Breakaway may not be luxury level to you but it is to me, hence I view it was treating ourselves. And frankly that’s all that matters.

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Yes! This is all that matters! And it is all a matter of perspective. Our perspectives may change with experience, income and age, but they’re still our perspectives, and they’re the only ones that matter for us:cool::cool: