Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)

[sanmarcosman]

CORONAVIRUSAS OF FRI 03/27San Diego County

Confirmed cases: 297

Deceased: 3

[Sir PMP]

52 minutes ago, NantahalaCruiser said:

Wrong, San Diego if more than twice the distance than going to Ft. Lauderdale.

The canal is closed...!

[mcmarya]

1 hour ago, LMaxwell said:

That's impossible to know for me or for you; but we do know that the decision was made to halt sailings on 3/13 and on 3/14 the Zaandam made a port of call and continued operating their scheduled itinerary.  Why the decision was made not to terminate the voyage and send people home on 3/14 simply given the unprecedented pause the industry had announced is baffling; no one had a crystal ball on 3/14 but to think the cruise would have run regularly to 3/21 doesn't make sense either.  There were, and still are, ships at sea unfortunately being denied entry at all ports and the situations have no clear play book.  I would agree that the result of Chiles decisions are indeed hardships and high costs; but they did not cause it 

The Zaandam was scheduled to terminate its cruise in Punta Arenas on 3/14 but the Chilean authorities would not allow it.  They tried again at San Antonio/Valparaiso but were again denied.  Trying to keep this factual.

[rkacruiser]

8 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

The canal is closed...!

 

If this is true, this crisis is going to have an economic world-wide impact that is unimaginable.

 

Having sailed through the Suez Canal and seeing the many blockades that Egypt had built to close the canal if they chose to do so, I never thought that Panama might do the same.

 

  

[rafinmd]

15 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

The canal is closed...!

 

4 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

If this is true, this crisis is going to have an economic world-wide impact that is unimaginable.

 

Having sailed through the Suez Canal and seeing the many blockades that Egypt had built to close the canal if they chose to do so, I never thought that Panama might do the same.

Not literally but effectively true as the Zaandam has been denied passage through the canal.  Unless the US Navy responds to the canal and forces them to let the ship through the Zaandam has to choose from the available options.

 

Roy

[Turtles06]

15 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

The canal is closed...!

 

Where in the world are you getting that from?   

 

The Canal is open, but it has prohibited the Zaandam from transiting.  Two very different things.

 

https://www.bunkerspot.com/americas/50208-americas-panama-canal-takes-steps-to-ensure-business-continuity

 

[Turtles06]

Just now, rafinmd said:

 

Not literally but effectively true as the Zaandam has been denied passage through the canal.  Unless the US Navy responds to the canal and forces them to let the ship through the Zaandam has to choose from the available options.

 

Roy

 

The Canal is not "effectively" closed.  It is open.  It has prohibited the Zaandam from passage.   Perhaps you could say it is "effectively" closed to this one ship.  

[Midwestgal]

How horrible for all of them and their families at home being so worried. 
I couldn’t image being in their place ,I’d just want to be home. 
prayers and well wishes to all of them , Hope there get back to the states soon
 

[rafinmd]

1 minute ago, Turtles06 said:

 

The Canal is not "effectively" closed.  It is open.  It has prohibited the Zaandam from passage.   Perhaps you could say it is "effectively" closed to this one ship.  

The discussion is about the Zaandam going to Ft. Lauderdale so for purposes of this discussion the canal is effectively closed.

 

Roy

[iancal]

This is not a surprise. Panama went under lock down on the 24th.   Stores have limited hours.  A curfew allows people to be out only two hours per day.  These 2 hour periods are staggered  and are based on the last digit of one's national ID number. 

 

In some areas  there a road blocks to permit only those nationals who live in certain towns to enter.  Our friends claim that their Gov't has a great deal of support for this measure.

 

Not saying I agree with their decision but it should not be a surprise to those in the loop.   I suspect that there is a certain amount of posturing going on.

Edited March 28, 2020 by iancal

[CruiserBruce]

24 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

The canal is closed...!

Not according to this website:

 

https://safety4sea.com/global-port-restrictions-due-to-coronavirus/

 

There are various restrictions, but the Canal is not closed. As of 30 minutes ago.

[Sir PMP]

Just now, CruiserBruce said:

Not according to this website:

 

https://safety4sea.com/global-port-restrictions-due-to-coronavirus/

 

There are various restrictions, but the Canal is not closed. As of 30 minutes ago.

It's closed for the Zaandam..

[CruiserBruce]

Just now, Sir PMP said:

It's closed for the Zaandam..

As others have mentioned, Zaandam has been denied passage, true. But the Canal itself is not closed. Terminology is important.

[shastatroy]

On 3/22/2020 at 5:42 PM, Wehwalt said:

The State of California will not let cruise ships dock. IMHO it didn't do so great a job with the Grand Princess anyway.

Hmmm, there are 2 Princess ships in San Pedro, 3 Carnival ships in Long Beach and several ships in San Diego. 

[scubadawg]

People,please stop all the speculation! Lots of repeats of info that has been posted hours ago along with macabre references to bodies, freezer space, etc etc. There are posters on this forum with family members onboard, do you think they find that helpful or respectful?

 

It appears there are suddenly lots of infectious disease specialists along with state dept officials, govt officials etc, maritime specialists etc.

 

How about everyone take a deep breath, stop posting what ifs or wild speculations about what Was done, what Should be done, what You would do etc.   Give them some time to get accurate information and to make informed decisions without cc members trying to get the media or embassies involved etc.

[cruisemom42]

PLEASE -- In these rapidly moving news threads, read the preceding posts before you post information you think is new. Often it has already been posted, several times.

 

It's really not too much to ask. Many message boards not only request but enforce it to eliminate so many duplicative posts....

[Sunshine3601]

1 hour ago, Seasick Sailor said:

Please don't think me morbid, but how much space is available on Zaandam for deceased? 

I wish I didnt know this but most cruise ships can hold 10 to 12 bodies in their morgues.  

[Wehwalt]

This will either be HAL's finest hour or a nail in its coffin and at this point, I wouldn't care to venture which.

[BellKat]

3 minutes ago, scubadawg said:

People,please stop all the speculation! Lots of repeats of info that has been posted hours ago along with macabre references to bodies, freezer space, etc etc. There are posters on this forum with family members onboard, do you think they find that helpful or respectful?

 

It appears there are suddenly lots of infectious disease specialists along with state dept officials, govt officials etc, maritime specialists etc.

 

How about everyone take a deep breath, stop posting what ifs or wild speculations about what Was done, what Should be done, what You would do etc.   Give them some time to get accurate information and to make informed decisions without cc members trying to get the media or embassies involved etc.

Thank You! Totally agree!! This has gotten just beyond looney tunes. I, unfortunately, posted again today & clicked “notify me of replies” - really wish I hadn’t. Been probably 50 posts since I did. I just want true facts and nothing else. Waiting for my friend to post/tweet/text/email us. Clicking off now.

[Aquahound]

10 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

I wish I didnt know this but most cruise ships can hold 10 to 12 bodies in their morgues.  

 

That's actually an exaggeration.  Depending on the ship, it's about a third to half that number. 

[sansterre]

1 hour ago, cashmeremypuppydog said:

Do you remember my posts from yesterday? Could you comment so people understand what I just posted above.

Thank you

The Canadians!😎

Yes, I remember your posts.  I liked the last one you posted, a lovely night photo of the nearby Zaandam in a calm sea. 

But your other posts seemed to inflame the situation.  I don't recall exactly what you said, but I think I told you that the "rule" for all ships is to provide help or rescue at sea as needed.  It is understandable that not everyone enjoys being in a position of being a hero.  It seems your friend needed to be calmed, or encouraged to talk to someone about his/her concerns.  But to encourage panic, and refusal to help in this extreme situation was not helpful at all.

Edited March 28, 2020 by sansterre

[Cruisercl]

2 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

How can a passenger leave without their CPAP machine.   I thought those machines were required to keep them alive at night.   Those folks would never travel without their CPAP machines.

No that is not true. Sleep apnea may eventually cause issues that may lead to early death but no one has a CPAP machine at home that is a life and death situation if not used every day/night. Even severe sleep apnea patients can be without it for one or two nights. There are other things that can help temporarily.

Pulmonary nurse expert here.....

IMO, they do not want the machines onboard because they cannot guarantee they have been cleaned appropriately and can be a petri dish of bacteria and viruses.

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Cruisercl

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Allegedly the Rotterdam was dispatched with a number of kits to meet Zaandam.  Some tests can give results in a few hours. 

The tests don't "give" you results. They have to be sent to a lab where technicians complete the work needed to get the results.

 

It's my understanding that all test kits approved to date utilize reverse transcriptase PCR technology. You can read more about it here:  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/heres-how-coronavirus-tests-work-and-who-offers-them/

[Cruising Is Bliss]

3 hours ago, npcl said:

I still wonder if more was known when the ship was off Chile than we are being told.  For example how did they get positive test results back on the two.  They have not been to any other port since Chile. They would not have had the equipment on board to run the tests.  The Rotterdam would not have the equipment either.  So to have the positive test results they would have had to take samples, and have them run on a land based lab.  It seems like the last place for that to have been done was Chile.

 

It also seems that it is a large number of people to be showing symptoms now, if no one at all was symptomatic when they were at Chile (just based upon the way it progressed on the Diamond).

 

Rotterdam brought the COVID-19 test kits. The ships have the equipment to process flu tests. Test kits are virus specific and what they didn't previously have was COVID-19 test kits. Any ship which has the equipment to process a test for the regular flu uses the same equipment to do these tests.

 

Labs use expensive machines that automate the process and do multiple tests at once but tests can be manually processed individually.

Edited March 28, 2020 by Cruising Is Bliss

[rvdnsx]

Not trying to be insensitive in anyway, especially to the families who have lost loved ones.  But why are people still taking vacations right now?  I don’t know when this cruise started but hasn’t this Coronavirus been in the news for long enough for people to make a decision of traveling or not?  I get that people won’t get all their money back by cancelling last minute but nothing is more important then your health.  
 

A lot of what is going on in the world right now is due to people traveling without thinking of others around them.  Containment isn’t possible when people are still free to travel, especially between countries.  Just my two cents, and if anyone doesn’t agree with me then flame away.