I wonder how long they really can last?

[Hoopster95]

19 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:

RCL actually issued $3.3B in May and a further $2.0B in June.  That should keep them afloat (pun intended) for most of 2021.  With stock having having recovered from March low of $19 to $68 today  might be good time to fatten cash position by issuing a boatload (pun again intended) of shares through secondary offering.  Survival of company is more important than diluting current shareholders.

 

Thanks Baron

 

Mar 2020 (initial $2.2 billion)

https://ca.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN21A3XT

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/royal-caribbean-comments-on-new-financing-facility-301028303.html

 

"today announced that it has entered into a $2.2 billion 364-day secured term loan facility, further enhancing the company's liquidity position.  The facility can be extended at the company's option for an additional 364 days....  

Including this new financing, the company has over $3.6 billion of liquidity comprised of cash deposits and its existing undrawn revolving credit facilities (net of outstanding commercial paper).  In addition, the company has committed financing for all of its new ships on order."

 

April 2020

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/02/royal-caribbean-draws-down-revolving-credit-lines-due-to-coronavirus-pandemic.html

 

"On March 23, the company said it entered into a $2.2 billion loan agreement with a consortium of lenders. At the time, the company said it had $3.6 billion of liquidity, including undrawn revolving credit lines"

 

Lots more on-line through May until now, don't need to post anymore links,

Edited October 7, 2020 by Hoopster95

[HBE4]

5 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Great documentary and I highly recommend everyone watching it. I have now gotten off Google Chrome and started using more private browsers for less tracking. I've tried to stay off Facebook but I'm still addicted to my beloved Cruise Critic.

 

Firefox as a browser and Duckduckgo as your search engine, you'll be so invisible that you can change your name to Ghost Dog.  🙂

[Sea Dog]

5 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

Firefox as a browser and Duckduckgo as your search engine, you'll be so invisible that you can change your name to Ghost Dog.  🙂

That's what I am using now along with "TOR," a great bowser that incorporates Duckduckgo also. I like the Ghost Dog idea!

[Billy Baltic]

1 hour ago, mek said:

The answer for me is, "no."  Other than my L&S, which I only did because my deposit was non refundable, I have no intention of giving any cruise line more of my money until they can get things back up and running and demonstrate to me  that they still have a product  I want.

I sincerely hope they do, but I'm not interested in keeping them afloat with my money as the future of cruising is so uncertain.

Agree. I can’t see a situation where there won’t be cases onboard when they resume sailing. They still haven’t addressed what will happen in those cases. Until that’s clear and I’ve seen evidence that they will follow it when it happens, I’ll be spending my money elsewhere. 

[davekathy]

8 hours ago, mek said:

Pure speculation on everyones part, but I wonder how long the major cruise lines really can last w/o sailing? Back in the spring I was reading they had a business plan through 2020 with no cruises, but I haven't heard anything about 2021 and my guess is still nothing will be happening of any significance until late spring, (May/June.)  I would imagine they have a plan through 1st half 2021, but I'm not sure they can hold out any longer than that.

My Magic 8 Ball says, "better not tell you now". 🎱🙄

[Domino D]

I don't see the major lines going away, but my question is, "What will they look like?"  

 

Fewer ships, fewer ports, less people per sailing, fewer employees?  No self serve food or beverages? No 3rd party excursions?  Health waiver changes?  What will the first cruises look like, and will any of the changes be permanent?

[Beeline Cruiser]

8 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Why not post this on the bankruptcy depressing thread. Now 2 threads to ignore about same thing. Why start a new thread about same subject on another thread.

 

I'm ready for some positive vibes not doom and gloomers.. ignore going forward. Dont bother to reply to me.

 

Right? seriously the most depressing outlook is bankruptcies!! I’ve got got one more cruise until Diamond status and i hope never again to repeat!!

[livingonthebeach]

While many smaller cruise lines have become casualties and have shut down, the major ones, despite of zero revenue, have been able to raise enough capital to continue operations with sustainability well into 2021 and early 2022.  If and when it gets down to the wire, the big three have assets to sell and other ways of downsizing and restructuring before a bankruptcy filing becomes inevitable. 

 

The European model has already demonstrated that safe sailing can be achieved if the proper protocols are strictly adhered to.  When sailing is allowed by the CDC, the US will more than likely follow a similar plan.  The ability to reinvent themselves and adapt to the new normal is what will set apart the cruise lines that will make it and those that don't. Ocean travel will always exist in one form or another -- the way it evolves might not be what we have grown accustomed to and we will have to choose to either adapt or discontinue cruising.  

Edited October 8, 2020 by livingonthebeach

[PhillyFan33579]

5 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

NOTHING essential about airlines 

 
Not sure what business you work in, but airlines are critical to the global economy of today. 

[xDisconnections]

7 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

NOTHING essential about airlines 

 

1 hour ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

 
Not sure what business you work in, but airlines are critical to the global economy of today. 

Airlines are a necessary factor to our economy as they act as a mode of transportation for many people under the business transient segment for essential purposes. Cruising, on the other hand, is a leisure/vacation experience that certainly is not needed. Also, many of these cruise companies are incorporated in foreign nations such as Liberia and Panama.

[ReneeFLL]

12 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

NOTHING essential about airlines 

Not sure why you would think this, but they are important for many businesses to do business. A lot of domestic flights have been mainly full not unless it's an airline that has blocked off seats. At least most flights that are from and going to major cities. Unfortunately too many planes are sitting idle right now. 🛬

 

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by ReneeFLL

[bigrednole]

Seeing that some of the new debt required specific collateral, they will not go bankrupt. From what I read on the PRs for investors, it only said "private islands". Because these are contacts and wording is extremely specific, "private islands" has to refer to CocoCay for RCL. Otherwise it would have stated private port which would be Labadee. Labadee is not specifically an island. It is a part of Haiti. With those assumptions, I do not see RCL filing bankruptcy until 2022. If cruising is delayed until then, the cruise industry will be dead. I doubt that would be the case because the cruise lines will make a massive shift. They could just change and sail out of the Bahamas. Private charter flights from FLL/MIA to Nassau to board. Cruise from Nassau and back and deal with whatever legalities there are from there.

[TheMastodon]

15 hours ago, yogimax said:

Big difference...

 

Airlines are a necessity and have already received government funding.

Nothing essential about cruise lines or movie theaters

I don’t believe cruise companies should get bailouts.  

 

Every business is essential.

[A&L_Ont]

18 hours ago, bouhunter said:

I have to agree.  Yet another thread of pointless speculation isn't necessary.

 

Although a lot of threads eventually go down that rabbit hole now....  🙂

 

 Next rabbit hole when they start... how long until a case on board, a quarantine, a cancellation, etc...

 

Can’t wait for that day, because it means cruises have returned. 🙂

[TheMastodon]

10 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

 
Not sure what business you work in, but airlines are critical to the global economy of today. 

Absolutely essential.

 

Furthermore,  every business in this country is essential.  
 

Blows my mind people can’t understand this.  
 

 

[bouhunter]

3 hours ago, bigrednole said:

Seeing that some of the new debt required specific collateral, they will not go bankrupt. 

Some of your other points are good.  But having collateral is in no way a protection from bankruptcy.  And remember bankruptcy has many forms, it doesn't necessarily mean shutting down and going out of business.

[CSHS1979]

22 hours ago, Billy Baltic said:

I’m glad to see this thread. The old thread has gone flat and it’s probably the most valid topic - should people place deposits that they may lose. 
With regard to people complaining that it’s a duplicate thread, as far as I can see every thread is a duplicate since cruising stopped. Even recently there were two threads about the itinerary changes for 2021, L&S, COVID testing, etc. 

 

They used to combine threads

[CSHS1979]

15 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

 

Airlines are a necessary factor to our economy as they act as a mode of transportation for many people under the business transient segment for essential purposes. Cruising, on the other hand, is a leisure/vacation experience that certainly is not needed. Also, many of these cruise companies are incorporated in foreign nations such as Liberia and Panama.

 

Lots of companies are discovering alternate, more efficient ways of meeting remotely.😉

[xDisconnections]

6 minutes ago, CSHS1979 said:

 

Lots of companies are discovering alternate, more efficient ways of meeting remotely.😉

Of course they are and it's going to contribute to a longer rebound for industries such as lodging as businesses are noticing how much cheaper it is to work remotely. That doesn't change the fact that many businesses actually are essential with employees that need to get to where they need to be. Not everything can be done through Zoom. Airlines contribute greatly to our economy and are a necessary mode of transportation unlike cruising which acts as a leisure/vacation experience. 

[CSHS1979]

Just now, xDisconnections said:

Of course they are and it's going to contribute to a longer rebound for industries such as lodging as businesses are noticing how much cheaper it is to work remotely. That doesn't change the fact that many businesses actually are essential with employees that need to get to where they need to be. Not everything can be done through Zoom. Airlines contribute greatly to our economy and are a necessary mode of transportation unlike cruising which acts as a leisure/vacation experience. 

 

I agree that they are necessary, just not sure they need another bailout

[xDisconnections]

14 minutes ago, CSHS1979 said:

 

I agree that they are necessary, just not sure they need another bailout

I didn't know that I suggested they needed a bailout. I'd sooner hope one is given to the airlines and never should one be issued by our country to the cruise lines though.

[Ourusualbeach]

Carnival announced today in its quarterly report that it had 16 months worth of cash on hand as of Aug 31 at their current burn rate.  Enough to see them through all of 2021.

 

It will  be interesting to see how Royal’s And NCL’s projections compare in their quarterly update.

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23641-carnival-business-update-16-months-of-cash-on-hand.html

Edited October 8, 2020 by Ourusualbeach

[A&L_Ont]

1 hour ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Carnival announced today in its quarterly report that it had 16 months worth of cash on hand as of Aug 31 at their current burn rate.  Enough to see them through all of 2021.

 

It will  be interesting to see how Royal’s And NCL’s projections compare in their quarterly update.

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23641-carnival-business-update-16-months-of-cash-on-hand.html

That being said they might not have to wait for the CDC approval if things just clear up in their own of the next 14 months. 🤪

[TheMastodon]

21 hours ago, CSHS1979 said:

 

Lots of companies are discovering alternate, more efficient ways of meeting remotely.😉

Yea & ask anyone who has a real job if they would prefer zoom or face to face interaction.

 

 

[DCGuy64]

On 10/7/2020 at 2:04 PM, yogimax said:

Big difference...

 

Airlines are a necessity and have already received government funding.

Nothing essential about cruise lines or movie theaters

That's only your opinion and you're entitled to it. I would argue that the cruise lines are very much essential to the lives of their employees. Do you have any idea how many families rely on the income that crew members earn and send back home? Are their lives worth less than those of airline employees?