Would you support gratuities removed in exchange for higher cruise rates?

[juanarcin]

To be clear I'm not asking about denying staff their tips. They earn and deserve those! But I don't understand why we are given one rate when we clearly have to pay more. Gratuity has always been voluntary money given for great service...up until the last decade or so at least. suddenly it's expected and added to everything! So I'm curious how you would feel if they just silently added the gratuity to the price and it was never brought up again. I think people would still tip their favorite bar tenders, room attendants etc. and the higher price would still get distributed to all the staff behind the scene...but it would give us an idea of the actual price up front while avoiding this charade that we are voluntarily giving money. It's even a set amount that we are "voluntarily" giving!

[CruiserBruce]

Running for popcorn😁

[Joebucks]

People piss and moan over fees and frees. You'll never change that. It's like the meme of not wanting to buy a product that is $10 + $2.39, no thanks. The product that is $12.39 + free shipping is the better deal because you got something for free. It's probably the most annoying topic in all of vacationing. It never gets old hearing my friends and family tell me how amazing their vacation was because "everything was included, and they didn't have to worry" for some ungodly price. Meanwhile, my trip was less than half, and I enjoyed everything I wanted. Then they proceed to tell me I am lucky I can afford to travel so often. Apparently, a single price saves you money, no matter what that price is. Law of vacation.

 

Gratuities shouldn't be optional, but that's not the world we live in. Any time something is optional, the responsible people are stuck footing the bill.

[Hlitner]

There are already cruise lines that include just about everything in the cruise fare.  Some of us call them luxury lines and one of the luxuries is not being nickel and dimed.   Many of the mass market lines, that play the silly tip game, do generally offer promotions or inclusive fares that include their daily grats.  

 

Hank

 

 

[hallasm]

The big advantage of paying for cruises in Europe - prices are inclusive of all taxes, fees and gratuities (even if the cruise is in the US).  No surprises.  
I absolutely prefer in total price - this also applies to restaurants and excursions in Europe.  I then tip a small amount if the service is beyond what was expected.

[VMax1700]

7 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

Gratuities shouldn't be optional, but that's not the world we live in.

Maybe not where you live, but in the world I live in, they are!

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, hallasm said:

The big advantage of paying for cruises in Europe - prices are inclusive of all taxes, fees and gratuities (even if the cruise is in the US).  No surprises.  
I absolutely prefer in total price - this also applies to restaurants and excursions in Europe.  I then tip a small amount if the service is beyond what was expected.

 

I THINK the OP is talking about the daily service charge and that is not included in the price when booking cruises here.

[hallasm]

55 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

I THINK the OP is talking about the daily service charge and that is not included in the price when booking cruises here.

Not correct when you book a Cruise at an European web site the price does include all charges. 
An example - go to royalcarribean.com and select Sweden - then SEK prices does include gratitude and all service charges. You can compare with USD prices by choosing the US web.

You can off course book cruises in USD at an US web and the service charge will not be included in your price.

Edited November 11, 2022 by hallasm

[John Bull]

I guess most of our American (and Canadian?) cousins have no problem with service charges/gratuities/tips/call-them-what-you-will being charged on top of the advertised price, along with taxes, port fees etc., because that's what they're used to on their home soil.

Laws on wages and advertising are lax in the US, and  consumers are aware that in the US staff in some industries such as catering rely on tips.  And different States have different tax levels, which make it difficult to include tax in nationally-advertised goods - again this is well-known to Americans, so not a big problem..

 

But in most of the rest of the world such mandatory extras are included in the advertised price, and that's so much easier to budget for and to compare cruise  prices.

To the best of my knowledge taxes in Europe and most other countries are nationwide, and there are strong laws about minimum wages so it's much easier to quote inclusive prices.

In Europe it's also illegal to add mandatory extras without informing the customer before commitment. That includes services ( plumbers, garages, restaurants, pubs, cruise ships etc) as well as goods.

 

"When in the USA .... is as valid as "when in Rome ....." .  First-time visitors aren't always clued-up, but should accept local norms.

But applying US norms on a US ship in European / Australian waters has been and always will be contentious, so much so that many US cruise lines now include "gratuities" in the cruise ticket price when sailing from European and Aus ports.

 

P&O is a centuries-old British shipping line, its liners never charged mandatory tipping until the cruise element of P & O was hived off and  joined the Carnival stable.  Carnival introduced mandatory tipping and that was pretty disastrous so P&O quickly abandoned the idea.

Conversely, as others have commented, ticket prices for cruises on US ships sailing out of Europe and Aus have been switching to tips-included ticket-pricing. As well as local custom, consumer law is a driving force behind that switching - anything mandatory must be included in the ticket price or very clearly stated in the booking contract.  To try to get round that, US ships have been hiding in the small print the customer's right to have tips removed or amended, but as word has spread more and more have been removing the tips and cruise line policies have been coming round to tips-included. 

JB 🙂 

[mjkacmom]

No because it would cost a little more since the DSC is not taxed.

[Hlitner]

28 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

No because it would cost a little more since the DSC is not taxed.

Not really since there are folks that either cancel or reduce their auto payments.  When everything is included in the cruise fare those kinds of costs can be allocated among all the cruisers.   Bottom line is that some folks are just "cheap" and look for any way to save a dollar, Euro, or Pound.  Just read the thread about "living on cruise ships" where one person from the UK asked about the idea of reducing tips if one chose to live aboard a ship.   It is not unusual to have folks from the UK and down under look for any excuse to reduce or eliminate tips since it goes against their cultural norms.   Most of our UK friends are pretty generous with their tips, but have told me that plenty of their friends are very resistant to the idea of American tipping.

 

Hank

[sanger727]

This is a question without an easy answer. Would I prefer the rate be all inclusive? Yes. However, especially for American based sailings, many Americans will still tip. At least when the gratuities are separated out you can see "I'm paying the gratuity so anything above and beyond is just extra". Once the gratuities are lumped in the cruise fare, I think you will see more Americans looking for advise on tipping and will go back to the old system of tips being dolled out at the end of every cruise -  just with the cruise price being an extra $200 higher. 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, sanger727 said:

This is a question without an easy answer. Would I prefer the rate be all inclusive? Yes. However, especially for American based sailings, many Americans will still tip. At least when the gratuities are separated out you can see "I'm paying the gratuity so anything above and beyond is just extra". Once the gratuities are lumped in the cruise fare, I think you will see more Americans looking for advise on tipping and will go back to the old system of tips being dolled out at the end of every cruise -  just with the cruise price being an extra $200 higher. 

Yes, having all the needed bills for the tipping envelopes used to be a pain in the you know what.

 

We have also been right at the borderline for insurance costs. Putting the tips on the fare versus having them added to our cruise card would have got us into the next category and a higher insurance premium.

[mom says]

I. Don't. Care. Either way, I'm paying the same. Not my problem if there are some people who don't do their due diligence and learn what is or is not included in their cruise fares- which very much depends on where they live and what lines they are sailing on. These are the people who need a TA to explain things to them.

[*Miss G*]

Holland America counts the daily Hotel Service Charge towards Mariner points so that bonus would disappear.  I honestly don’t understand the obsession people have with tips/gratuities/service charges.  To me, it’s part of the cost of cruising.  

[Heidi13]

On 11/10/2022 at 4:14 PM, juanarcin said:

To be clear I'm not asking about denying staff their tips. They earn and deserve those! But I don't understand why we are given one rate when we clearly have to pay more. Gratuity has always been voluntary money given for great service...up until the last decade or so at least. suddenly it's expected and added to everything! So I'm curious how you would feel if they just silently added the gratuity to the price and it was never brought up again. I think people would still tip their favorite bar tenders, room attendants etc. and the higher price would still get distributed to all the staff behind the scene...but it would give us an idea of the actual price up front while avoiding this charade that we are voluntarily giving money. It's even a set amount that we are "voluntarily" giving!

 

With the exception of the US market, most of the world does NOT add gratuities to the fares. Carnival tried to introduce the US model to UK cruising and it wasn't well received, so they were forced to revert to the traditional model.

 

If you want this in the US market, I'll suggest a change to your tipping culture is required. As the UK market proved, it is fairly easy to change, the pax just have to want the change and act accordingly. When it costs cruise lines money, they will change.

[sverigecruiser]

21 hours ago, hallasm said:

Not correct when you book a Cruise at an European web site the price does include all charges. 
An example - go to royalcarribean.com and select Sweden - then SEK prices does include gratitude and all service charges. You can compare with USD prices by choosing the US web.

You can off course book cruises in USD at an US web and the service charge will not be included in your price.

 

I booked our coming cruise on MSCs Swedish site and the service charge was not included in the price.     

[Mary229]

I can do math so I don’t worry about when I am charged.  I do clearly see the point that the all inclusive rate could reduce costs for everyone - the crew must be paid and it would weed out those who remove the tips.  I am sure the lines know the expected percentage of tip-removers and adjust fares accordingly 

[Philob]

14 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

If you want this in the US market, I'll suggest a change to your tipping culture is required. As the UK market proved, it is fairly easy to change, the pax just have to want the change and act accordingly. When it costs cruise lines money, they will change.

Not to long ago a few SF Bay Area restaurants changed to no tipping. The owners said the employees will have full benefits and a living wage(?) for the area.  A year or so later sales was down because of the higher prices. Most customers, confused on the concept, still tipped but smaller tips and the employees, front & back, complained (off camera) they made less $. I think all but one reverted back to tipping.

[Velvetwater]

Yes even though you don't even need to raise cruise prices (looks at Oz and UK et al) lines.

 

Also, paying staff fairly would mean more financial safety for them.

 

If you think about it, the rise of the all inclusive fare has increased on mainstream lines in recent years anyway. Cruising markets in non US countries are rising and that means the industry moving to those tastes. Will it ever be the norm? Hopefully.

[marco]

Some (most) cruise lines offer one to pre-pay gratuities.   Let's use some arbitrary numbers.  If the cost of the cruise is  $1200 and you can pre-pay gratuities of $120.  Your cost would be $1320.  If the cruise line offered the cruise for sale at the price of $1320 and said there is no longer a requirement for gratuties ( or words to that affect).........the difference is????????  However, that might sound more appealing to some.

[hallasm]

12 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

I booked our coming cruise on MSCs Swedish site and the service charge was not included in the price. 

I was on MSC cruise's Danish website where the price is as you write without service charges - however it says "+ Mandatory service charges (Kr xxxx pp)” - immediately I would assess that this advertisement is not legal according to EU legislation.

[2wheelin]

Might be nice to have the included in the fare but if the cruise needs to be canceled, would they be refunded? If you don’t sail, currently you don’t pay. They should be mandatory however they are charged.

[Nebr.cruiser]

Sticky question.  The only reason I'd support it is that (Hopefully) this would take care of the cruisers who remove tips, since I assume that the tips would be included in the cruise price and couldn't be removed.

 

 Otherwise, if you don't remove tips, it's  just semantics; for some, 'all inclusive' sounds better, even if the price ends up being the same.  I mean, I can do math; a $1000 cruise where I leave the auto tip of  $150 on is the same as the same cruise with tips include for $1150.  

 

We often book with travel agents who throw in the tips as a perk, which is nice.

 

As someone mentioned, it might make insurance more expensive.  

[wowzz]

6 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

Might be nice to have the included in the fare but if the cruise needs to be canceled, would they be refunded? If you don’t sail, currently you don’t pay. They should be mandatory however they are charged.

In the case of lines such as P&O,  Saga etc, where the fare is inclusive of tips, the gratuity element is not split out, in the same way as port fees are not split out either. 

So, you pay an all inclusive fare,  and if the cruise is cancelled,  you get your total payment refunded.