Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)

[Max2003]

55 minutes ago, DCCruiser57 said:

The Fort Lauderdale mayor just did an interview on Fox and although I did not catch the entire interview, it sounded like the PEF is not going to allow the Zaandam to dock and disembark guests.

 

The mayor will finally concede for humanitarian reasons and will be lauded for trying his best to "protect" the citizens of Fort Lauderdale as well.  He has until the Zaandam rounds the corner at Cuba to milk it!  In the meantime he will try and get public opinion to push for more aid from the feds.  Classic!!    Savoir faire!

[JennysUncle]

9 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Max, would you mind posting again the site for this marine service?  Or is it a site that has to be subscribed to.  Thanks.

 

VesselFinder.com  is another free tracking site.  Also  CruiseMapper.com

[charmed1959]

I hope if the mayor does allow the ship to dock he makes sure he has the facilities to take on the sick passengers.  Bringing them into port without having enough hospitals beds would be cruel.

[Max2003]

14 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Max, would you mind posting again the site for this marine service?  Or is it a site that has to be subscribed to.  Thanks.

 Click here

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-77.1/centery:8.5/zoom:5

 

 

[KAKcruiser]

Again, the mayor of Fort Lauderdale does not have the authority to make any decisions.  It is up to the Port Authority and also the Broward County Commission.

[Max2003]

1 minute ago, Max2003 said:

 Click here

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-77.1/centery:8.5/zoom:5

 

 

Also you can filter out different classes of ships to make it easier to see what you want.. The passenger ship class is in blue.

 

[Tampa Girl]

42 minutes ago, Max2003 said:

Well it doesn't look like they are going to stop. 😁  I hope the visual diversion raised the spirits!

 

 

 

 

It looks like the Z is going north/northeast - possibly int the Gulf of Mexico?; and the R is hearing northeast - toward the Windward Passage?

[2+2]

Remember highly specialized care is not required for patients with the Corona virus. But highly trained medical staff and the ability to isolate them is. They will have a plan. And it will be a good one. 

[conwakr]

23 minutes ago, charmed1959 said:

I hope if the mayor does allow the ship to dock he makes sure he has the facilities to take on the sick passengers.  Bringing them into port without having enough hospitals beds would be cruel.

No one knows how many beds will be needed yet.  Many people we now know have the virus and do not suffer severe complications fortunately. 

[rkacruiser]

43 minutes ago, Cruisin Kay D said:

As I read the many pages of comments since the transit, I thought of so many points I wanted to make now, none of which I can now remember....

 

I have never seen the number of pages of comments on any topic on CC explode so rapidly as I attempt to get caught up.  I feel the same as you.  It's information overload to the max!

[Himself]

13 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

It looks like the Z is going north/northeast - possibly int the Gulf of Mexico?; and the R is hearing northeast - toward the Windward Passage?

Perhaps to New Orleans or  the Port of Galveston, Texas  with the Rotterdam going to Port Everglades.

[rafinmd]

Would it make sense to send the ships to two different ports?

 

Roy

Edited March 30, 2020 by rafinmd

[TiogaCruiser]

1 hour ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

According to the Mercury News article, several of the quarantined GP passengers said they were discouraged from being tested.  They were also told the tests were voluntary and could result in a longer isolation period.

 

My point is simple:  If the Zaandam passengers are all quarantined (which should happen), then they should all receive tests for the virus.  They should not be under the delusion, whether external or internal, that testing is optional.

PCR testing is not really a way to confirm someone does not have the virus. It looks for the virus (dead or alive) that is in the nasopharynx or oralpharanyx that has been picked up by the swab. A negative test is no guarantee a person is free of the virus as it may appear days later. PCR testing is best done on symptomatic people.

 

There are blood tests available from other countries (not FDA approved). Not sure if those might be available in this circumstance.

[capriccio]

Florida Senator Rick Scott released a statement this afternoon that doesn't rule out a Florida port:

 

"your heart goes out to all of those on board but if the ship ends up in Florida, all on board should be tested and all passengers quarantined for 14 days, even if they’re not showing symptoms. We can’t take any chances.”

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-florida-coronavirus-holland-cruise-fort-lauderdale-20200329-vvm6xggbbvfm5hx5a6av4piery-story.html#icb-arc-story-id?utm_medium=notification&utm_source=onesignal

[Tampa Girl]

9 minutes ago, rafinmd said:

Would it make sense to send the ships to two different ports?

 

Roy

 

The Rotterdam would be more easily accepted in PEF because no illness has been detected so far.  I really can't get a good idea of where the Z  is heading, but it does look like it is on a more northerly, rather than easterly route.  If so, there are various military bases along the Florida - Texas coastline.  I don't see New Orleans being feasible.  All this being said by one is totally clueless as to facilities available.

[UnorigionalName]

11 minutes ago, TiogaCruiser said:

PCR testing is not really a way to confirm someone does not have the virus. It looks for the virus (dead or alive) that is in the nasopharynx or oralpharanyx that has been picked up by the swab. A negative test is no guarantee a person is free of the virus as it may appear days later. PCR testing is best done on symptomatic people.

 

There are blood tests available from other countries (not FDA approved). Not sure if those might be available in this circumstance.

 

PCR is the first test that should be positive.  Nothing can detect the virus any earlier.  It is true no one knows exactly when in the infection cycle people turn PCR positive, but there really isn't any better test for new infection.

 

Other tests will be better to see if you cleared a COVID infection, especially if you are the lucky people with virtually asymptomatic infections.  As after you clear it you should be PCR negative for the most part.

[GMjournalist]

Why did the Zaandam almost get blocked from passage through the Panama Canal? It’s complicated. Here’s a look at the issues canal is dealing with: https://www.freightwaves.com/news/could-coronavirus-block-or-delay-some-panama-canal-transits

[SilvertoGold]

2 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

There was some government pressure applied, and not just from the U.S/, but from at least two foreign countries. I won't name them but one with always friendly/helpful folks with a border to the north of the U.S., and the other, a tiny country in Western Europe known for tulips, windmills and clogs   

 

Yes, we were happy to see our Prime Minister involved in this, not just on behalf of our own citizens.  The cloggers' help was great, as well - thanks to them.   Good for both countries!

[T8NCruise]

I'm betting the passengers aren't too thrilled about being "dumped" in Florida either - especially if they saw news reports of the beaches at spring break, and the total lack of any precautions with the virus already running rampant.  They are probably afraid of catching something in Florida.

Seriously, for those who are up in arms about them being disembarked in Florida, do you really imagine they are going to be running all over the place risking infecting anyone (supposing they actually do have the virus)?  They probably just want to get through quarantine wherever that may be, and get home.

Copper - kudos to you for your very informational posts and for giving credit to the other countries who are willing to help.

[dockman]

Surely with hundreds of hotels sitting empty a plan can be worked out to at least use one or two of the vacant hotels as a quarantine spot for a few weeks?  There are 800 passengers on Rotterdam showing no symptoms.  That is 2/3 of the passengers.   I hope and assume that there are many plans being examined and discussed with the experts involved and a consensus reached and an action plan in place today.

[capriccio]

11 minutes ago, dockman said:

Surely with hundreds of hotels sitting empty a plan can be worked out to at least use one or two of the vacant hotels as a quarantine spot for a few weeks?  There are 800 passengers on Rotterdam showing no symptoms.  That is 2/3 of the passengers.   I hope and assume that there are many plans being examined and discussed with the experts involved and a consensus reached and an action plan in place today.

 

That has been suggested by some Florida politicians and hoteliers:

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-crushed-tourism-industry-struggles-20200321-dsoqmnw7rfbcra7gemolem7f3a-story.html

 

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200322/coronavirus-florida-hotels-could-hold-infected-people-desantis-says

 

 

[dockman]

3 minutes ago, capriccio said:

 

That has been suggested by some Florida politicians and hoteliers:

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-crushed-tourism-industry-struggles-20200321-dsoqmnw7rfbcra7gemolem7f3a-story.html

 

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200322/coronavirus-florida-hotels-could-hold-infected-people-desantis-says

 

 

 the date of article is march 22...more than a week ago...are they still discussing it or are they moving quickly to identify and ready some properties?  I hope they don't plan to discuss it for a few more weeks.

[Host Anne]

Hi everyone ~ WOW....I get home from work and there are a bazillion more pages to this thread.  I have to admit the first thing i did this morning was to check and make sure  Z and R got through the canal.  LOVED the  photos and video of the transit.  I've been watching their progress all day.  It will be very interesting to see how this all plays out.  

 

In my "real" job we book a ton of meetings, events & conventions and the challenge with using a closed hotel for Zaandam and Rotterdam passengers is that there would be no one available to work in those facilities. I highly doubt that the South Florida area between Ft. Lauderdale and Miami have sufficient medical personnel to oversee the facility and  you certainly aren't going to put healthy citizens in the building to work.  In other words, it's more than just opening up an empty hotel.

 

I'd like to thank all of you who have contributed to this thread with some great information and discussion.  Our goal is to keep this thread and exchange of information going so we can all follow the Zaandam and Rotterdam in the coming days.  To those who have family onboard, a special thanks for letting us know they are OK.  Please let them know that everyone here on this Cruise Critic thread are wishing for their safe and healthy return to family and loved ones. 

[npcl]

3 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

Look people (bear with me; talking to the involved state and local politicians here, from a soapbox no less) It's not that difficult! Oakland, CA showed you how it can be done through, as was already mentioned, a collaborative effort, what a concept! They - the two ships - are not just going to have their pax trounce into the FLL cruise terminal and into Ft. Lauderdale propper, Broward County, the state of Florida, and wherever else in the world they reside. Let's get real here!

 

There was a protocol established with Grand Princess! Learn from it and apply it! The vast majority of Grand Princess folks did their quarantine period and are now home. Quit the B.S.ing, get your caca and your heads together, and get it done, for peete's sake! These are your fellow human beings on Zaandam and Rotterdam we're talking about here! Show us something positive for a change!

Keep in mind that California almost did not want the ship either. I seem the recall that initially there was also some resistance and that was for a ship that initially left from San Francisco. They only accepted it after arrangements were made with the other countries to repatriate their citizens, and the feds to handle the quarantine.  There were relatively few ill passengers.

 

The situation at this time is certainly more complex. Far more ill, the number of community cases are further along.  The cruise originated in another country.  There is not an unused pier to dock the ship at as in Oakland. The majority of passengers on the Grand were from California and there was adequate quarantine space relatively close by at Travis and a bit further away at Miramar.

 

Not that it cannot be resolved, only that the situations are different and this one is more difficult.

[capriccio]

The Sun-Sentinel (Fort Lauderdale) has just published an opinion piece by the HAL president entitled:  Holland America president issues plea on behalf of those stranded at sea

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/commentary/fl-op-com-zaandam-holland-america-plea-20200330-2mw56itc65dbvk2kicyvcv4fhi-story.html

Edited March 30, 2020 by capriccio