Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)

[Copper10-8]

1 hour ago, npcl said:

The bases that have been used for quarantine have been active duty bases, with base hospitals, lots of support resources.  Homestead does not have much of either. It would probably be easier to use a hotel than to try and use Homestead.

 

Plus right now not sure how much of the military resources are being used by deployments to several cities for mobile hospitals. Plus you are starting to get cases showing up on military facilities and ships. Both Carriers is the western pacific are now showing cases.

 

Any resources are going to be competing with local needs.  Unfortunately things have changed rather dramatically since the Grand incident and not for the better.

 

HAL might need to ask what they can do to help solve the issue and reduce the scope of the problem.  If they can test those that are not showing symptoms then they might be able to get those people off to self quarantine.  Especially if they have antibody tests. They could offer to charter planes to get them to their home states/countries.

 

That would reduce the number of passengers to those testing positive and those showing symptoms. Reducing the overall scope.  

 

Still not clear if they have fully tested all of those showing symptoms or only the very serious cases.

 

 

I think they might need to do more this time,  If they offer to do so they might have a better luck getting a positive response.

 

For that matter a large number of the ill are crew members.  What is HALs plan for them?  

 

 

 

And with that, we're going to have to find out what the next two-three days bring as far as a game plan

[FlorenceItaly]

Someone mentioned, why not in San Diego?  This may explain why they are not docking in San Diego

 

https://www.countynewscenter.com/county-restricts-cruise-ships-with-covid-19-local-cases-reach-603/

[Cruzaholic41]

15 hours ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

 

I agree, but what makes anyone think that HAL is not doing everything in its power to work with any entity or person that can help?  HAL managed to get the PCA to relent.  And until something concrete is in place, I think HAL is wise not to pass along hopeful info that is subsequently quashed.  I think that we are doing too much Monday-morning quarterbacking, as well as unnecessary speculation since we have no facts.  

Exactly. I seem to remember early in this thread when someone said Rotterdam would be taking the healthy passengers, others jumped on him saying no way that would happen. Let’s just wait and see what happens. Other much more knowledgeable people are making the decisions here. 

[YXU AC*SE]

Updated position ~135nm SSE of George Town, Grand Cayman.   Scott. 

 

[Max2003]

Back to heading for west of Cuba passage.  Course about 314 degrees and about 360NM from western tip of Cuba.  Assuming a speed of 20 Kts, you can do the math, we should see them around the corner tomorrow morning.

 

 

[sansterre]

Wishing fair winds, following seas, and welcoming port to all passengers and crew on both the Zaandam and Rotterdam.

 

[Hlitner]

NBC Today show just mentioned, "Two ships looking for a place to dock!"  Broward County Commissioners meet in a few hours to discuss and vote.  One wonders what the "Plan B" will be if they vote to refuse docking permission to the two HAL vessels.

 

Hank 

[Himself]

This is not HAL's fault. I am rather miffed at the  attitude coming out of the Governor of Florida, mayer of FLL and the Big wheels of  Broward County.

[Floridiana]

Miffed is too weak an expression for their attitude. What would they say if their parents were on the Zaandam?

[CruisingAlong4Now]

Both ships fly the Dutch flag, a good ally.  It's been more than 14 days since any passengers disembarked at a port. They have been quarantined. Bring the ship in and take care of the souls on board.

[cat shepard]

30 minutes ago, Himself said:

This is not HAL's fault. I am rather miffed at the  attitude coming out of the Governor of Florida, mayer of FLL and the Big wheels of  Broward County.

 

Father, you are a better person than I.  If the leader of my state was this cautious from Day 1, I could understand his position - though I would still cringe at his choice of words.

 

But he has dragged his feet and he continues to waffle back & forth.   Luckily I live in a County whose Sheriff made us sit up & take notice early on. And though we have a decent sized airport, it is not a major hub.

 

But I am the eternal optimist. I have to believe that the dilemma of the Zaandam & Rotterdam will soon be resolved. And resolved in a way that is best for all involved.

Edited March 31, 2020 by cat shepard

[Mark_T]

1 minute ago, CruisingAlong4Now said:

Both ships fly the Dutch flag, a good ally.  It's been more than 14 days since any passengers disembarked at a port. They have been quarantined. Bring the ship in and take care of the souls on board.

Certainly not suggesting they shouldn't be brought ashore at the earliest opportunity, but unfortunately they cannot be considered to have 'been quarantined'.

 

Sadly the numbers affected onboard keep going up and given the limitations on the ship it is not surprising.

 

With the continued risks of cross-contamination and the spread of the problem via infected crew, it is really only those on the Rotterdam who may have the quarantine clock ticking, and even then only if there are no new developments there and if indeed there were no currently sick passengers transferred...

[3rdGenCunarder]

11 hours ago, AlanF65 said:

Latest from HAL's Orlando Ashford

https://www.hollandamerica.com/blog/ships/ms-rotterdam/a-humanitarian-crisis-response-to-cruise-ships-stranded-at-sea-tests-our-deepest-human-values/?fbclid=IwAR3_lxOJEPpt0-R3Fc2ZI-a3ZmfrDb6acw7YyfH-MjNue6Vy8kziWBrtllI

 

 

8 hours ago, Von & John said:

 

Unfortunately the article is hidden behind a pay wall...

Do you have a simple synopsis of the article?

Or is this the same as what was posted on the HAL Blog?

 

Try this link to the HAL site. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

7 hours ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

Exactly. I seem to remember early in this thread when someone said Rotterdam would be taking the healthy passengers, others jumped on him saying no way that would happen. Let’s just wait and see what happens. Other much more knowledgeable people are making the decisions here. 

 

Somebody said that, but it may not have been an official statement. It could stem from the fact that they didn't move any ill passengers, a move that makes sense in so many ways. By not moving any ill passengers, they did create a "sick ship" and a "healthy ship," but there's no guarantee that someone who was moved hadn't already been exposed. 

 

 

30 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

Certainly not suggesting they shouldn't be brought ashore at the earliest opportunity, but unfortunately they cannot be considered to have 'been quarantined'.

 

Sadly the numbers affected onboard keep going up and given the limitations on the ship it is not surprising.

 

With the continued risks of cross-contamination and the spread of the problem via infected crew, it is really only those on the Rotterdam who may have the quarantine clock ticking, and even then only if there are no new developments there and if indeed there were no currently sick passengers transferred...

 

In his latest message, Mr Ashford said that new cases were decreasing, but no specifics. So we don't know how much the numbers are going up on Zaandam. And you're right about the quarantine clock on Rotterdam. There's no way to be sure if someone was incubating but asymptomatic at the time of the move. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by 3rdGenCunarder

[RJB]

14 hours ago, Host Anne said:

Hi everyone ~ WOW....I get home from work and there are a bazillion more pages to this thread.  I have to admit the first thing i did this morning was to check and make sure  Z and R got through the canal.  LOVED the  photos and video of the transit.  I've been watching their progress all day.  It will be very interesting to see how this all plays out.  

 

In my "real" job we book a ton of meetings, events & conventions and the challenge with using a closed hotel for Zaandam and Rotterdam passengers is that there would be no one available to work in those facilities. I highly doubt that the South Florida area between Ft. Lauderdale and Miami have sufficient medical personnel to oversee the facility and  you certainly aren't going to put healthy citizens in the building to work.  In other words, it's more than just opening up an empty hotel.

 

I'd like to thank all of you who have contributed to this thread with some great information and discussion.  Our goal is to keep this thread and exchange of information going so we can all follow the Zaandam and Rotterdam in the coming days.  To those who have family onboard, a special thanks for letting us know they are OK.  Please let them know that everyone here on this Cruise Critic thread are wishing for their safe and healthy return to family and loved ones. 

Very well said.  Keep up the good work.  Stay safe.

[pully8]

This is a terribly sad and desperate situation for all.

Humanitarian rescue will be required eventually to avoid more loss of life.

Hope it can be resolved soon.

 

[rabidstoat]

A few thoughts:

 

1. New Orleans is really hard hit by coronavirus, they are having a hard time keeping up with their current problems and I think adding cruise ship passengers would be a bad idea.

 

2. There are currently 4 deaths on the ship, but it's not been said if they were coronavirus-related or not.

[fatcat04]

Something that probably has been mentioned in the 52 pages but bears repeating:

 

Logic dictates not everyone that is ill on those ships will require a hospital bed with 24/7 nursing, much less an ICU bed or a ventilator. 90+% of the people who get it end up in home quarantine. Heck, on Diamond Princess 70+% of the folks didn't even get it and the folks dealing with that were in new territory.

 

Our cousin has been confirmed as having COVID-19. He is home in quarantine. He actually has symptoms unlike most people who have it. It's unpleasant (like the flu) but in a couple weeks should this progress the way the doctors are thinking, he will be fine.

Edited March 31, 2020 by fatcat04

[RJB]

11 hours ago, DAllenTCY said:

Florida is the "Cruise Capital of the World".

 

They will figure this out in the coming days.

 

David

 

 

 

 

By the time this is over we  could be "FORMER CRUISE CAPITAL OF THE WORLD"  This needs to be handled in the right way.  Must take care of these people the right way. 

[hcat]

Visiting from the Celebrity Board..our thread of concern and support seems missing.

 

I think we can all agree that a plan is needed asap...they must be working on it.

Time is of the essence!

 

Prayers for all on board the ship.

[bob brown]

To all the NIMBY's out there....try...just try to imagine it was YOUR loved ones aboard the stricken ship's...

If that doesn't change your attitude, I feel truly sorry for you.

[Seasick Sailor]

My heart aches for these people. We should all be on our knees in prayer.

I was so sad to leave Oosterdam on March 14th, after only 1 week of a 6 week cruise. Now, I thank God every day we walked off the ship and were home safe and sound that night. I can't imagine where we'd be right now. 

[Max2003]

It seems that they are making about 17 Knots.  The currents here are with them so it is strange that they aren't faster. 

 

Can anyone identify the passenger ship behind Z & R on the same course??

 

[YXU AC*SE]

3 minutes ago, Max2003 said:

Can anyone identify the passenger ship behind Z & R on the same course??

 

MS Insignia  - Oceania    Scott. 

[JennysUncle]

The ship behind the Z and R is the Insignia, showing destination Tampa. (according to VesselFinder)