EU Considering Travel Ban on US Citizens

[Roger88]

Considering how many sick people we got no wonder they are closing the boarder for US citizens in particular. As a US citizen I will stay this year at home myself cause I dont want another pandemic happening in Europe and in the rest of the US. Hope people will be smart enough to stay at home this year to let this thing die out 

[Sir PMP]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

I see a lot of concern about the loss of life. And, we are annoyed that our cruises are cancelled. Hope that FL can fix the problem. Do you know what the positive test rate is?

 

A month ago, the positive test rate was 3%. Today, it is at the 14% level. Is that alarming?  What are the chances that cruise ships can depart in 2020?

 

 

 

 

Keep your eyes on the mortality rate, instead of some of the panic news comments..

[bcummin]

We all need to pull together by trying our best to clean up our own houses.

May God help us all.

Barbara

[HappyInVan]

47 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

Keep your eyes on the mortality rate, instead of some of the panic news comments..

 

I would rather listen to DR Fauci and colleagues for their experience and training, and ignore the opinionated civilians.

 

You may not be concerned about the current mortality rate, but deaths lag infection and hospitalization. The more infected people, the more likely for seniors to get infected.

 

Who's the server in the restaurant? The grocery clerk who bumps into you? Are they wearing masks?

 

If I wasn't concerned about American lives, I would be laughing and breaking out the popcorn.

 

Fix your problem, save your economy and let's get the ships sailing again.

 

 

[Despegue]

3 hours ago, Sir PMP said:

Keep your eyes on the mortality rate, instead of some of the panic news comments..

Negative!

the ONLY objective measure is the occupancy rate of hospital beds and ICU’s.

every country calculates their deaths in a different way. Some, like Germany, will only attribute Covid19 as cause of death if the person was autopsied and the primary cause was the virus. Hence the very low death rate.

others, like Belgium , attribute ANY death that is POSSIBLY related to Covid19 ( without the need of test or autopsy) to the virus, hence the artificially very high death rate in that country. ( the ICU’s were never more than 60% full in Belgium, there was no collapse of the health system, lockdown worked, etc...)

some however, including Country “leaders” abuse figures to their advantage without being either intelligent enough to correctly interpret or for their own political gain. Sometimes both. So beware and don’t believe Propaganda media like Fox, the US equivalent of Russia Today. (Far Right)

Even CNN is not objective as professional media should, being focussed on pleasing their respective viewers. ( leaning Left)

 

[ontheweb]

14 hours ago, kazu said:

 

Huh???  This post is totally uncalled for.  I am NOT pretending anything.  I report facts.  In reply:

#1 - I don’t live in Toronto.  I live in New Brunswick (my location is clear on my name) and report what I see. (We have 2 deaths so far here in total due to one stupid person)

 

#2 - if you can physical/social distance you don’t need to wear a mask outside.  When my foot is well enough to walk my dogs, I don’t need to wear a mask, but I will have one with me in case there isn’t space.  Normally (before I broke my foot) we just avoided those areas.

 

#3 - say what you want but I am  sure that a LOT more people are wearing masks here than in your country.  Otherwise, how do you explain our flat line versus your climbing line?

 

#4 Of course not everyone wears a mask all the time but if you want to go into the hospital, the beauty salon, physio, dentist, several stores here, etc., a mask is mandatory and it is upheld here.  Anywhere where you can’t physically (aka social) distance in an enclosed space it is required.  Stores  here are very careful on social/physical distancing.  

 

In fact, the only stores I will dare to enter are the ones enforcing the mask rule.  Otherwise, I do curbside service.  

 

#5 - our leaders have come together to fight this pandemic - that’s part of the success.  Conservatives have praised Liberals (they’ll fight later when this is over).  That makes a huge difference.

 

 It’s a pandemic for crying out loud.  We all need to work together.  We’re trying to do that in our province for sure.  
 

 

#4---How does the dentist work on your teeth while you are wearing a mask? As for hair salons, DW went and got her hair cut and had to hold her mask on so that the beautician did not cut the strings.

 

All stores here require mask as per state law, but the only one I have seem lately that has someone stationed at the entrance and making sure masks are worn is Walmart. I have seen others with someone near the door wiping down shopping carts, but I do not know for sure if they say anything to anyone trying to enter without a mask.

 

And what about enforcement within a store? Yesterday I saw someone shopping with a mask not covering his nose; plus by the time he got to checkout only his chin was covered. No store employee as far as I could tell said anything to him.

 

And I agree with your last paragraph; we must all work together. But that unfortunately is not happening. In my small neck of the woods we have a group who are our main summer residents, and none of them wear masks unless forced to by stores, and even then seeing my sample above they often do not do it in a responsible manner.

[kazu]

Just now, ontheweb said:

How does the dentist work on your teeth while you are wearing a mask? As for hair salons, DW went and got her hair cut and had to hold her mask on so that the beautician did not cut the strings.

 

I can only speak for here but.  You call, wait in the car until you are signalled to come in.  Only one person permitted in the waiting/screening area at a time.  You only take one step in the door until you are sterilized and screened.  Once you have had the screening done, temperature taken, etc., and are in the sterile room, the mask is removed.  (The hygienist keeps hers on along with the protective shield).  You have to rinse with a special antiseptic rinse which theoretically takes care of any germs in your mouth.

 

Certain procedures cannot be done (like the cleaning with the water spray).  They are operating under very strict protocol as dictated by their Dental association.  It’s very time consuming.  My appointment was probably twice as long as normal

 

Hair is tricky for sure.  My hairdresser seems adept at holding the string so that the mask doesn’t move when he cuts around the ears.  I will say though that the cut in that area is not as nice as it usually is 😉. However, no complaints from me.  I’m grateful it can be done even if it isn’t a fun experience.  

 

I feel for the businesses with the monies they have had to invest for sanitizing, protective plexiglass, masks, etc.  

[iancal]

Graphs and facts can be disputed.

 

Two things cannot be disputed.  They are inescapable.

 

The first is that in many areas hospitals, ICU's are at, and over capacity.  Health care workers are burning out.  The number of hospital covid admissions is growing exponentially.   

 

The second is death.  Then number of covid deaths  is increasing.

 

These are inescapable facts that some would like to ignore or gloss over in favor of others that serve to deflect some people's attention from the real issue.

Edited July 4, 2020 by iancal

[HappyInVan]

Here's a positive example for our American friends to follow. British Columbia has a seventh of Canada's population. But, only 3% of the confirmed cases, and only 2% of the deaths. How was it possible when it has a huge Asian population?

 

No miracles here. We are not a Teutonic model of deep organization and preparation. Rather, our residents pulled together like soldiers.

 

This was a positive precondition.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/team-of-rivals-united-front-1.5570696

 

The government allowed the Provincial Health Officer to be the public face, and lead the campaign. The Premier was there to announce the lockdown and the reopening. The health minister worked behind the scenes, and credit must go to him for the strategic wins.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/long-term-care-crisis-covid19-pandemic-1.5589097

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-ontario-recovery-stage-1.5586557

 

The Provincial Health Officer is widely admired and trusted. That said, she had focused too much on the hospital program. Displayed signs of inflexibility, and had to be overruled by the health minister.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid-19-coronavirus-metro-vancouver-hospital-icu-death-rate-1.5589695

 

Moreover, BC has only done a modest amount of testing. So, we were fortunate that our residents didn't mess it up.

 

The interesting point is that the government did not impose shelter-in-place. Bars, salons, gyms and parks were closed. Factories and warehouses continued to operate. Offices did close their doors to the public. The courts were closed.

 

Most retail shops closed themselves and did not reopen till June. The media provided information without gratuitous political editorials.

 

The public was asked to avoid non-essential movement, and social distance. This they did like champions. The Premier didn't take credit for our success.

 

Everyone had a part to play, and they didn't trip over each other. Actually, I was really surprised by how smoothly it went. Our residents are known to be independent minded and prone to demonstrations.

 

Remember this important point. No one has a perfect game. What matters is how you recover from your mistakes. Hopefully, we will soon join our American friends on the cruise ships.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RJ2002]

10 hours ago, Sir PMP said:

Keep your eyes on the mortality rate

 

Yes, the mortality rate is an important indicator.  Thankfully, as the medical community has made progress in treatment techniques, the death rate has been going done. 

 

However, IMO, a more important indicator is the hospitalization rate.  When our hospitals become too crowded with those having severe COVID symptoms, others who might need a hospital visit for non-COVID reasons may have trouble gaining access to the health care they need.

[DFD1]

12 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

I see a lot of concern about the loss of life. And, we are annoyed that our cruises are cancelled. Hope that FL can fix the problem. Do you know what the positive test rate is?

 

A month ago, the positive test rate was 3%. Today, it is at the 14% level. Is that alarming?  What are the chances that cruise ships can depart in 2020?

 

 

 

 

 

At the rate things are going, I'd say the chances are zero to none.

 

[geocruiser]

2 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 

 

Moreover, BC has only done a modest amount of testing. So, we were fortunate that our residents didn't mess it up.

 

 

Do you think that more testing would show more cases?

[d9704011]

2 hours ago, geocruiser said:

Do you think that more testing would show more cases?

Probably a lot less than you might think.  When BC (and Ontario) began testing the target cohort were those most likely to already be ill or exposed to the virus.  By and large, that has changed now and a lot of the testing is for people wanting to get an ‘all clear’ to visit relatives in a retirement residence or travel somewhere.  Of course there are still cases but the percent positive has gone way down. 

[HappyInVan]

9 hours ago, geocruiser said:

Do you think that more testing would show more cases?

 

The problem with BC was that our Provincial Health Officer had no faith in the results from testing. Said that there were too many false negatives.

 

So, we started off by only testing symptomatic returning travelers and their contacts. That works in small numbers when backed by a clinical examination.

 

Field Marshal Moltke the Elder "no plan survives contact with the enemy"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_von_Moltke_the_Elder

 

 

Oops! Covid infiltrated the care/retirements homes! So, she directed the testing program at the vulnerable populations and employees.

 

Without enough tests, the symptomatic general public was told to rest at home. No need for a test if you recover. Report to the hospital if you can't breath!

 

At the time, it wasn't understood how quickly that patients could slip away. So, we lost a couple of guys who tried to tough it out at home.

 

The advantage of a high test capacity is that you have reserves you can commit as the fight progresses. Cover returning travelers, as well as care homes. You do many tests in order to gain information about the spread and penetration of the disease, even if there are many false negatives.

 

With enough tests you can get ahead of the disease, by confirming infections before they become infectious or symptomatic.

 

Fortunately, our surge was just a puddle (see graph below).

 

I'm not a medical person, and that's my take on the matter.

 

 

[Dunelm]

I wish media would talk more about how many of the patients who "recover" from the virus are left with life-long health problems.   Where I live there is a surge of cases and deaths because action was late and re-opening was too early.  It seems that profit always wins over people.  The economy cannot recover unless we are able to manage efficiently and nationally this monster virus.  The countries who are dealing best with the crisis, had a national strategy and residents who cared about each other.  I am not surprised that the USA is a banned country.  It is chaotic at present with very mixed messages and misinformation.

[Despegue]

Just back from NY, and people seemed disciplined and wearing their masks. At least that was my impression.

 

 

[ontheweb]

7 hours ago, Despegue said:

Just back from NY, and people seemed disciplined and wearing their masks. At least that was my impression.

 

 

The question remains will the rest of the US, especially many Southern state, learn their lesson like NY did.

 

Out of curiosity, did you have to quarantine after getting back for NY?

[cruisemom42]

17 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

The question remains will the rest of the US, especially many Southern state, learn their lesson like NY did.

 

 

If things continue as they are doing, they will eventually HAVE to learn....at least I hope so.

 

I live in an area where cases continue to increase around our metro area. The state is not yet one of the "highlighted" ones but we are just barely under the radar. Last night we ordered dinner via a delivery service. The delivery person arrived with the food and was not wearing a mask. She was extremely surprised that we would not open the door to take the food from her; directing her to leave it on the bench and walk away.

 

Surely places like delivery services should require masks on their employees by now?  If one is concerned enough about going out to order in, one clearly doesn't want contact with random others...

 

(And yes, we had marked it "Contactless delivery"!)

[rafinmd]

48 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

If things continue as they are doing, they will eventually HAVE to learn....at least I hope so.

 

I live in an area where cases continue to increase around our metro area. The state is not yet one of the "highlighted" ones but we are just barely under the radar. Last night we ordered dinner via a delivery service. The delivery person arrived with the food and was not wearing a mask. She was extremely surprised that we would not open the door to take the food from her; directing her to leave it on the bench and walk away.

 

Surely places like delivery services should require masks on their employees by now?  If one is concerned enough about going out to order in, one clearly doesn't want contact with random others...

 

(And yes, we had marked it "Contactless delivery"!)

And I assume that put a tip out of the question.

 

 Roy 

[cruisemom42]

7 minutes ago, rafinmd said:

And I assume that put a tip out of the question.

 

 Roy 

 

I actually had pre-tipped, as I usually do on these platforms (they make it part of the ordering process, though you can adjust it later). I am somewhat reluctant to change the tip, as I don't know whether DoorDash actually requires masks or not of its workers and I don't like to penalize unfairly.

 

I did, however, immediately send an email to the company about it.

[RuthC]

43 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

I am somewhat reluctant to change the tip, as I don't know whether DoorDash actually requires masks or not of its workers and I don't like to penalize unfairly.

Required or not, so long as the company doesn't forbid workers to wear masks, the delivery person should have had one on if he/she expected to come in contact. 

[kazu]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

I live in an area where cases continue to increase around our metro area. The state is not yet one of the "highlighted" ones but we are just barely under the radar. Last night we ordered dinner via a delivery service. The delivery person arrived with the food and was not wearing a mask. She was extremely surprised that we would not open the door to take the food from her; directing her to leave it on the bench and walk away.

 

OMG cruisemom42 I can’t believe this 😱😓. I do believe you but I can’t believe the ignorance.

 

Here we are at phase 3 with very few cases and Atlantic Canada has opened it’s boundaries to all of the Atlantic Canadian provinces.

 

 But, delivery is left on the doorstep. The person rings the bell, knocks on the door, whatever and leaves.  No contact.  And yes, there is a facility to tip when you pay for the order. 😉 

 

That goes for regular deliveries and food / take out deliveries.

 

We are required to wear masks when we can’t maintain distance.  A door delivery to an unknown person is too close for comfort.

 

We all have a bubble of no more than 10 households and those bubbles cannot be shared or changed here.

 

 

 

[iancal]

All deliveries in our area are dropped at the door.  Restaurants, Amazon, whatever.  

 

Mask wearing appears to have increased substantially over the past week.  Last week it appeared to be 50-75 percent.  Yesterday, in three stores, the average was more like 90 percent.  Some stores provide masks at the door.  We can also pick them up gratis at many drive through locations (gov't distributes them).

 

Restaurants are opening.  We would like to go but are not.  Our health authority tells us that this is one of the most probable places to contract the virus.   Most churches remain either closed, have gone on line and  absolutely limit attendance by using a reservation system.  

 

There is a feeling that more inspection, heavy fines, and potential forced closings are required for those businesses that ignore the guidelines.   Restaurants and clubs are being targeted.  In some areas they are being forced to close.  We are having some issues with public gatherings.  The main challenge is as it always is.  You cannot fix stupid.

Edited July 11, 2020 by iancal

[Cruising-along]

4 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

The delivery person arrived with the food and was not wearing a mask.

Wow! I'm glad you sent that email.  I've noticed even the UPS and Amazon drivers are wearing masks here -- and they have no or very little contact with customers.

[npcl]

Here In Oregon (7th lowest infection rate 2,716/1 million out of the 50 states, a lower rate than Canada and most European countries) we have had an up tick in infection rates as the summer travel season has started.  Largely due to large numbers of travelers from out of state.

 

As a result masks are now required in indoor public spaces. Stores and businesses are pretty much enforcing  because the Oregon Occupational Safety and Health (together with other state agencies such as Liquor Control Commission, Health Licensing, etc) are doing checks and will close down businesses that violate the mask and distancing measures.  Several businesses have been cited.  Second instance means suspension of license.  One coffee shop reported an instance of 4 highway patrol refusing to follow the mask ordinance.  One of them is now on administrative leave, the other three had personal meetings with the governor (while wearing masks of course).