Once Covid Vaccine comes out, would you be 1st in line?

[2wheelin]

13 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

Wrong.  Mid-September is the ideal time.  And the flu vaccine you get in October will be the same formula as the one they are using now – no change during the flu season.

Thanks but I will follow the Mayo Clinic schedule and get mine in Oct with the other 70,000 employees.

[sanger727]

14 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Today's Wall Street Journal had an article about the current state of Covid vaccine testing – several vaccines are currently well into Phase 3 and will apply for certification in October when that phase is complete.  The three phases test for side effects, effectiveness, and proper dose level – what more do you need?  Who asked these questions about the pneumonia vaccines – we seniors are advised to get them [over and over, currently there are three vaccines each more effective than the prior one] and DW and I follow that advice.  We also get a flu shot every year.  And I note that the flu shot is different every year – do they do 3-phase testing of the new shots?  I don't think so, but we still get them.  So why should the Covid vaccine have to go through impossible layers of testing before it's considered safe?

 

The flu vaccine is for different strains each year but is fundamentally the same vaccine, so no need to test like a new vaccine. Coronavirus is a fundamentally new vaccine so needs to be tested as such. They start the flu season knowing that we have this formula for the vaccine and we just to need to adjust a bit. Coronavirus they didn't know if it could be vaccinated against, what would be used in a vaccination, what dosage, if it was safe, etc. So yes, a 3 phase process is very necessary, otherwise everyone will be a test subject. 

[whogo]

1 hour ago, 2wheelin said:

Thanks but I will follow the Mayo Clinic schedule and get mine in Oct with the other 70,000 employees.

CDC's advice: "You should get a flu vaccine before flu viruses begins spreading in your community, since it takes about two weeks after vaccination for antibodies to develop in the body and provide protection against flu. Make plans to get vaccinated early in fall, before flu season begins. CDC recommends that people get a flu vaccine by the end of October. However, getting vaccinated early (for example, in July or August) is likely to be associated with reduced protection against flu infection later in the flu season, particularly among older adults. Vaccination should continue to be offered throughout the flu season, even into January or later. Children who need two doses of vaccine to be protected should start the vaccination process sooner, because the two doses must be given at least four weeks apart." https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/vaccinations.htm

[SRF]

On 8/24/2020 at 12:54 PM, ldubs said:

 

Same for maker of SawStop table saws.   Initially they were pushing oscar mayer wieners into the blade.  They the guy used his finger.  Gives me the willies.

 

Yeap, I know that product also.

[SRF]

2 hours ago, slidergirl said:

A lot is known about flu.  Somehow, they find what permutation it will be this season and base the vaccine off of that.  That is why it is not 100% effective.  Somewhere, they've agreed that we can protect with a lesser efficacy.  And, the vaccines have gone though testing for years.  Pneumonia is pneumonia - they don't have to develop a new forumulation year after year.  It's gone through testing.  

COVID is a new virus.  We have no idea what is going on.  Look at long haulers - still having issues months after having COVID.  First thought only respiratory, now, it's also vascular.  It also re-animates other viruses - finding more COVID long haulers getting shingles, vision issues.  You have to do a thorough investigation of a new vaccine for novel virus - different sexes, ages, races, co-morbidities.  Humans are not binary.  You have to have thousands of that mix.  You have to figure out what dosage is enough and not too much.  A dosage may be OK for a 40 year old white man but deadly for a 40 year old Native Amercan.  You have to send them out into the world and have them mix with the socially undistanced and unmasked.  
Do you want to short cut that?

 

Pneumonia is not pneumonia.

 

That is why there are two current vaccines.  One protects against 13 (Prevnar 13, 13, get it. 🙂 ) varieties of causative agents.  And Pneunovax 23, which protects against 23 varieties.  And the two are needed to protect against all possible strains.

 

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

15 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

No homeschooling is one way to protect every child. 

 

It's also a way to ensure the indoctrination of every child.

[sverigecruiser]

7 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

It's also a way to ensure the indoctrination of every child.

 

The risk of indoctrination is much higher at home than in school so that is one more reason to avoid homeschooling.

[bigrednole]

10 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

It's also a way to ensure the indoctrination of every child.

Had to laugh because my friend did this to his class because the kids are being indoctrinated. He determined the average grade of a test, gave them their scores, then subtracted points or added based on what they earned. The smartest kid in class who was very opinionated asked what the -22 points were. He told him it was to make sure everyone was the same. His 22 points were given to everyone else and they all got a C on the test. He was talked to by his principal, but nothing happened. It was a test in World History.

 

But in all seriousness, the CDC has already identified its top list of recipients targeted for late October or early November for several million doses of vaccination. It is for emergency workers and highest risk people. The choice will be to take it in order to work or being removed from nursing homes. In almost all cases, that basically leaves no option but to take it. The same will hold true come the early part of the year. Kids will have to have it in order to return to school along with the flu vaccine. You will have to have the vaccine in order to enter grocery stores, "essential" businesses, going out to eat, any government building. Private businesses not open to the public will probably be able to do what they want, but any business that allows the public in will be required to verify vaccination. 

 

With the Act passed here in the US, the drug makers have zero liability. This is a complete win/win scenario for them. They used none of their own money to develop it, have no liability if something happens, and they can charge pretty much anything they want. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by bigrednole

[iancal]

We get our flu shots the first time we notice the sign as we enter a Costco advising us that they are available at the pharmacy.

 

Usually mid October --early November.   That is when our health authority starts advertising general availability at pharmacies vs. medical or health clinics.    The flu shots are free.   Take rate has been increasing over the past several years.  

 

Hopefully covid vaccinations, when they come, will be handled in the same way.

 

I doubt whether we will be first in line.  I suspect front line health and public safety workers will be first,  government service employees, those in care homes, those with medical issues.  We are seniors but we are in good health so we do not expect to be behind others who have a much higher priority.

Edited September 3, 2020 by iancal

[evandbob]

Almost time for our annual flu shot!  My Doc recommended we get it towards the end of this month or by the 1st week of October.

And this year I'll be due for my 5 yr. pneumonia shot.  Easy to remember that I get this one when my age ends in 0 or 5.

[chipmaster]

20 hours ago, evandbob said:

Almost time for our annual flu shot!  My Doc recommended we get it towards the end of this month or by the 1st week of October.

And this year I'll be due for my 5 yr. pneumonia shot.  Easy to remember that I get this one when my age ends in 0 or 5.

 

Wonder if this year it is better to wait or get it early, there could be a run as everyone should want to avoid the double whammy of COVID and Flu, don't want to be late to the line and see them run out, stay safe!

 

I've been thinking to get it early, no harm in earlier as they don't have a late change in the cocktail for this year.

[jocap]

We've just received notice from our health centre about the flu immunisations, that they're asking for vulnerable/shielding/over 65s to make the first appointments, and they said that there's different types for different age groups. 

[2wheelin]

2 hours ago, chipmaster said:

 

Wonder if this year it is better to wait or get it early, there could be a run as everyone should want to avoid the double whammy of COVID and Flu, don't want to be late to the line and see them run out, stay safe!

 

I've been thinking to get it early, no harm in earlier as they don't have a late change in the cocktail for this year.

 

15 minutes ago, jocap said:

We've just received notice from our health centre about the flu immunisations, that they're asking for vulnerable/shielding/over 65s to make the first appointments, and they said that there's different types for different age groups. 

Getting it too early reduces your protection for the later season which last year was very prevalent here. In the US the medical advice is to wait till end of Sep beg of Oct but by the end of Oct. May depend on your season start over there.

It is available here but will be a while before illness begins and protection is needed. This year COULD be a little different in decision making since it is said any vaccinations may decrease the intensity of a Covid infection,

[ontheweb]

Since there seem to be many who seem to be leery of any vaccine that will be improved soon, I thought I would post this pledge from the drug company leaders that they will not allow political pressure to make them push through a vaccine that does not meet safety requirements.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/04/science/covid-vaccine-pharma-pledge.html.

[njhorseman]

12 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Since there seem to be many who seem to be leery of any vaccine that will be improved soon, I thought I would post this pledge from the drug company leaders that they will not allow political pressure to make them push through a vaccine that does not meet safety requirements.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/04/science/covid-vaccine-pharma-pledge.html.

And they're definitely serious about safety.  AstraZeneca just put its vaccine trial on hold in order to investigate a "suspected serious adverse reaction".

 https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/09/08/world/europe/08reuters-health-coronavirus-astrazeneca.html

Edited September 9, 2020 by njhorseman

[ldubs]

On 9/3/2020 at 12:26 AM, bigrednole said:

 You will have to have the vaccine in order to enter grocery stores, "essential" businesses, going out to eat, any government building.

 

. 

 

I have not heard this before from any reliable source.  Is this speculation?  

[Ashland]

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I have not heard this before from any reliable source.  Is this speculation?  

I too would like to see the source from the poster you quoted. This sounds 

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, njhorseman said:

And they're definitely serious about safety.  AstraZeneca just put its vaccine trial on hold in order to investigate a "suspected serious adverse reaction".

 https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/09/08/world/europe/08reuters-health-coronavirus-astrazeneca.html

What if they find out the person who had the serious adverse reaction received the placebo? I would imagine that they have to break the blind to determine whether that participant actually received the shot.

[njhorseman]

56 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

What if they find out the person who had the serious adverse reaction received the placebo? I would imagine that they have to break the blind to determine whether that participant actually received the shot.

Obviously they have no choice but to break the blind for those cases where a serious adverse reaction occurs. But the loss of a participant or a few participants in a large scale trial isn't very important.

[jocap]

18 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

 

Getting it too early reduces your protection for the later season which last year was very prevalent here. In the US the medical advice is to wait till end of Sep beg of Oct but by the end of Oct. May depend on your season start over there.

It is available here but will be a while before illness begins and protection is needed. This year COULD be a little different in decision making since it is said any vaccinations may decrease the intensity of a Covid infection,

Yes, the appointments begin on Oct 3rd.

[navybankerteacher]

On 9/8/2020 at 5:26 PM, 2wheelin said:

 

Getting it too early reduces your protection for the later season which last year was very prevalent here. In the US the medical advice is to wait till end of Sep beg of Oct but by the end of Oct. May depend on your season start over there.

It is available here but will be a while before illness begins and protection is needed. This year COULD be a little different in decision making since it is said any vaccinations may decrease the intensity of a Covid infection,

No - the medical advice I have received from several sources is to get it when available. 

 

The flu season starts in October and it generally takes two weeks for your shot to be effective -- so a shot by mid-October would leave you unprotected until November.There is minimal risk of the immunization you gain tapering off as the season winds down, and even  if it does, it would be when the season was winding down so there would be far fewer carriers out there.  

[2wheelin]

4 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

No - the medical advice I have received from several sources is to get it when available. 

 

The flu season starts in October and it generally takes two weeks for your shot to be effective -- so a shot by mid-October would leave you unprotected until November.There is minimal risk of the immunization you gain tapering off as the season winds down, and even  if it does, it would be when the season was winding down so there would be far fewer carriers out there.  

We will just assume the season starts earlier in CT than in the Midwest. I will still follow the Mayo Clinic which is starting to vaccinate employees (mandatory for all) in mid Oct. Last year the season did not wind down as numbers were high at the end of the season, possibly because so many got vaccinated too early.

Do as you wish. Others should heed their medical advice.

[njhorseman]

12 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

No - the medical advice I have received from several sources is to get it when available. 

 

The flu season starts in October and it generally takes two weeks for your shot to be effective -- so a shot by mid-October would leave you unprotected until November.There is minimal risk of the immunization you gain tapering off as the season winds down, and even  if it does, it would be when the season was winding down so there would be far fewer carriers out there.  

That's contrary to the advice I've received from my physician and contrary to what the CDC suggests, particularly for older people due to early vaccination leading to reduced protection later in the season:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/vaccinations.htm

"When should I get vaccinated?

You should get a flu vaccine before flu viruses begins spreading in your community, since it takes about two weeks after vaccination for antibodies to develop in the body and provide protection against flu. Make plans to get vaccinated early in fall, before flu season begins. CDC recommends that people get a flu vaccine by the end of October. However, getting vaccinated early (for example, in July or August) is likely to be associated with reduced protection against flu infection later in the flu season, particularly among older adults."

 

What you're saying is also contrary to the Mayo Clinic's recommendation:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/flu/in-depth/flu-shots/art-20048000

 

"It takes up to two weeks to build immunity after a flu shot, but you can benefit from the vaccine even if you don't get it until after the flu season starts. It's usually best for people in the United States to get their flu vaccine in September and October, and aim to get it by the end of October. However, you can still protect yourself against late flu outbreaks if you get the vaccine in February or later."

[new_cruiser]

On 9/8/2020 at 11:33 AM, chipmaster said:

 

Wonder if this year it is better to wait or get it early, there could be a run as everyone should want to avoid the double whammy of COVID and Flu, don't want to be late to the line and see them run out, stay safe!

 

I've been thinking to get it early, no harm in earlier as they don't have a late change in the cocktail for this year.

There is potential harm in getting it early. The immunity produced by flu vaccine is fairly short term. If you get it early, protection can be waning before the flu season ends. That's why my provider (Kaiser) waits to late September to start flu vaccination.

[2wheelin]

1 hour ago, new_cruiser said:

There is potential harm in getting it early. The immunity produced by flu vaccine is fairly short term. If you get it early, protection can be waning before the flu season ends. That's why my provider (Kaiser) waits to late September to start flu vaccination.

Absolutely correct but many won’t listen to reason and expert advice.